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Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by adonovan on Monday May 06, 2024 @12:56PM (#40276715)
No less a scientist than Roger Penrose is (arguably) in that camp: his excellent “The Emperor’s New Mind” is about the paradox of free will in a mechanistic universe, and the question of where among the laws of physics might consciousness fit. (Spoiler alert: the collapse of the quantum wave function has a different character from all the other laws.)
Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday May 06, 2024 @03:06PM (#40278305)
> No less a scientist than Roger Penrose

This is argument from authority.

In Penrose's case, while his position is mildly interesting, most other scientists and philosophers interested in consciousness and mind/brain questions completely reject it.

Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by adonovan on Monday May 06, 2024 @04:38PM (#40279243)
> This is argument from authority.

No, it isn't. An argument from authority would be me claiming that X is true because Penrose says so. The parent poster had said "I guess there are people who still believe the mind is some mystical thing not determined by biology." To which I responded with a data point: a highly respected physicist (indeed, an authority) who professes to be, essentially, a Cartesian dualist. I wasn't even claiming that X is true.

HNers do seem to love casually slinging claims of logical fallacies at each other.

Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday May 06, 2024 @10:29PM (#40281723)
Yes it is. You sought to bolster the mention of Penrose's almost-certainly ridiculous consciousness-is-quantum ideas by starting with an implicit description of his rank as a scientist.

Had you started with: "There are a handful (and I do mean a mere handful) of scientists, most of them with no background in either brain or computation science, who think ...." and then later mentioned Penrose, you'd be right.

But you chose to lead with his nominal status derived from his life as a talented and (rightfully) celebrated mathematician, thus attempting to improve the otherwise less than marginal status of the quantum-centric view of consciousness with his authority.

Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by tasty_freeze on Monday May 06, 2024 @01:17PM (#40276935)
That is a rather tenuous thing to base an argument (and a book) on. Quantum wave collapse is not understood at all, to the point there are physicists who deny collapsing even happens.
Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by Animats on Monday May 06, 2024 @02:44PM (#40278042)
Rudy Rucker points out, in one of his SF books, that free will and random number generators are the same thing.
Re:Daniel Dennett: 'Where Am I?' by euroderf on Monday May 06, 2024 @02:16PM (#40277747)
Lee Smolin (a physicist) argues that all this talk of determinism (as opposed to free will) has a real impact on people, leading to fatalism and feelings of helplessness and hopelessness, and that this has real impact on prospects for public policy responses to the crises we as a species face.