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Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by heresie-dabord on Sunday May 05, 2024 @04:58PM (#40268300)
> is there anyone that actually defends these DEI statements with a coherent argument

When Richard Dawkins spoke at UC Berkeley in 2008, he argued that "raising awareness" about feminism by changing how we speak and think has changed society for the better. (In the same discussion, he seeks to do the same for children's freedom from their parents' religion.) There is no doubt that Western society has changed how it treats and speaks about women.

That said, Dawkins has in more recent years found himself opposing identity politics as they seek to change language usage and perceptions of gender.

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by naasking on Sunday May 05, 2024 @05:14PM (#40268464)
> That said, Dawkins has in more recent years found himself opposing identity politics as they seek to change language usage and perceptions of gender.

Correction: Dawkins doesn't care one whit about gender, and he has literally said so. He only cares when people cross into talking about sex, make incorrect claims about the nature of sex (spectrums and such), conflate sex with gender, and make unscientific claims about being able to change one's sex. Basically, when they enter his wheelhouse and start making a confusing mess of things.

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by heresie-dabord on Sunday May 05, 2024 @09:36PM (#40270313)
Thanks, I'm happy to be corrected.

> making a confusing mess of things.

Which seems to be the prevailing state of discourse about the matter of DEI. If I may add a reflection, maybe it was just relatively easier sociologically to recognise the injustices and inequalities that feminism decried.

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by Dylan16807 on Monday May 06, 2024 @12:30AM (#40271150)
What claims is he making specifically?

> the nature of sex (spectrums and such)

Sex shows itself to be a spectrum pretty often.

> unscientific claims about being able to change one's sex

Phenotype or genotype?

They don't always match even without any medical intervention, and a change in hormones can drastically change phenotype.

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by naasking on Monday May 06, 2024 @10:24AM (#40275063)
Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by Dylan16807 on Monday May 06, 2024 @12:32PM (#40276472)
A huge fraction of humans don't have gametes. That definition only works for describing a species, not individuals. That doesn't need debating, he's off in his own corner talking about a completely different metric.
Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by naasking on Monday May 06, 2024 @12:39PM (#40276529)
He addresses that in one of the links.
Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by Dylan16807 on Monday May 06, 2024 @01:02PM (#40276787)
Now you're cursing me to read entire twitter threads?

This isn't in fact my hobby horse so without more specifics I'll just treat him as talking past people and move on.

Looking at the video in the second link, it looks like he only spent three minutes talking about trans people and I don't see any explanation there about how you're supposed to apply his universal biological definition to individual people.

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by naasking on Monday May 06, 2024 @01:32PM (#40277123)
It's in the second paragraph of one of the links I posted:

"It happens to be embryologically DETERMINED by chromosomes in mammals and (in the opposite direction) birds, by temperature in some reptiles, by social factors in some fish."

Re:MIT abandons use of DEI statements by Dylan16807 on Monday May 06, 2024 @01:40PM (#40277222)
Most of the time!

Sometimes you don't get gametes. At that point, you either need to exclude those people from your classification system because it's ill-suited for this task, or you need to make your classification system significantly more complicated because there's a lot of edge cases.