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Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by explodingman on Monday May 06, 2024 @06:03PM (#40280033)
Really enjoying this
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by josh-sematic on Monday May 06, 2024 @07:14PM (#40280554)
Yes, the visualizations are wonderful. It must have taken quite some time to produce the data to allow playing with the hyperparameters so smoothly in some of the examples.
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by ubutler on Monday May 06, 2024 @07:49PM (#40280779)
Check out PaCMAP, AFAIK it’s the current SoTA in dimensionality reduction: https://github.com/YingfanWang/PaCMAP
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by abhgh on Monday May 06, 2024 @10:02PM (#40281532)
Yes, also TriMap does quite well. PacMAP is faster though. This paper [1] (linked at the GitHub repo you have mentioned) goes into a fantastic amount of detail in comparing UMAP, t-sne, PacMAP and TriMAP.

[1] https://jmlr.org/papers/volume22/20-1061/20-1061.pdf

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by rsfern on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @08:18AM (#40284595)
Thanks for the link, that is a really nice paper!

I found it really refreshing that they report a bunch of stuff they tried that didn’t work in a way that clarifies the problem and leads to a lot of insight into the strengths and limitations of their final method and the leading alternatives

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by abhgh on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @10:44PM (#40293848)
You're welcome! There is a talk too [1], which is how I had learned about the paper.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD-uDZ8zXkc

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by Demiurge on Monday May 06, 2024 @08:07PM (#40280913)
really confused by this
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by frgtpsswrdlame on Monday May 06, 2024 @08:28PM (#40281024)
Judging by my twitter feed, some scientists are starting to push back on the use of UMAP (and t-SNE.)
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by abhgh on Monday May 06, 2024 @09:52PM (#40281462)
I think a common problem is that these techniques get repurposed to solve problems that they weren't meant to. I have seen multiple people fall too often into the trap of using these visualizations to guess whether a dataset may be classified with high accuracy. I'm talking about cases where there already is a label - but viz. is used as a prior compute-cheap step to understand whether they would bother with classification at all, or should they pick a weak-vs-strong classifier, etc.

The problem of course is the insights from viz. provide "one-sided" information: IF your instances from different classes look separated, then you know that a decent classifier would do the job well. But if they don't appear separated, you don't know whether they can't be accurately classified: for all you know you don't have the right hyperparams. Also account for the fact that you're projecting d-dimensional data down to 2D/3D - this is heavily lossy; even with the right hyperparams there is a chance you won't see high separation. If you want to classify, just classify.

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by cinntaile on Monday May 06, 2024 @09:19PM (#40281280)
What do they suggest you use instead?
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by __mharrison__ on Monday May 06, 2024 @09:42PM (#40281386)
PCA for starting out
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by roseway4 on Monday May 06, 2024 @09:44PM (#40281399)
PCA performs horribly on non-linear data.
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by __mharrison__ on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @02:43AM (#40283018)
How will you know if you have non-linear data....
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by cinntaile on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @12:41AM (#40282411)
As a sibling comment already mentioned that doesn't really work for non-linear data. UMAP and t-SNE are techniques used on non-linear data.
Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by clircle on Monday May 06, 2024 @08:32PM (#40281050)
>1. Hyperparameters really matter

>2. Cluster sizes in a UMAP plot mean nothing

>3. Distances between clusters might not mean anything

>4. Random noise doesn’t always look random.

>5. You may need more than one plot

Oh OK, so this is basically impossible to know if you are learning something or inventing garbage.

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by kelseyfrog on Monday May 06, 2024 @09:10PM (#40281238)
The big takeaway is that despite these UMAP is still useful.

I've used UMAP in the past. It's not quite as bad as you're suggesting. Points 2,3 and 4, are going to be things that you're going to want to verify quantitatively anyways. Despite this, it's still a fine way to throw points up and start exploring - just don't use it as the end all, be all.

Re:Understanding UMAP (2019) by nerdponx on Tuesday May 07, 2024 @09:40AM (#40285321)
And ironically these exact problems are why people stopped using t-SNE in favor of UMAP originally.