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Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by beambot on Friday April 26, 2024 @05:45PM (#40174687)
The headline should read: "7900 sqft lot sells for $1.7M"...

This was true for our house mid-peninsula: The appraised value of the land was 95% of the purchase price; the appraised value of the structure was less than the cost to bulldoze.

Given the proximity to Los Altos, this house will be purchased by a developer & razed, and they'll build a new 4000-sqft 2-story which will be listed for $5M+.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by llamaimperative on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:23PM (#40174977)
Gotta love it because definitionally all of the lot owners’ new wealth was not created by them, but by the community around them and despite their withholding that land from anything useful.
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:40PM (#40175100)
If you've lived in the community for awhile and helped develop it, some of the community's value really could have been created by you. You paid property taxes, you frequented businesses, you participated civically. Conceivably, if a bunch of rich do gooders moved to Gary Indiana and...gentrified it...they created wealth (for better or worse, obviously).
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by llamaimperative on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:30PM (#40175470)
Mysteriously, the people who don’t own land can do all those useful things for the community and they don’t end up with a $2MM windfall.

Almost as if “doing things for the community” yields nothing close to the returns of “own shack and wait.”

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 26, 2024 @08:07PM (#40175749)
Pure speculation and rent seeking doesn't really do anything but leach of someone's else effort. Wealth doesn't appear out of thin air, it was created somehow. In the case of Cupertino, Asian immigrants from the 80s as well as the obvious tech scene made it a desirable place to live. Not everyone just bought property and sat on it just waiting for something to happen, people had to actually make it happen.

I guess if you want to make money as a speculator/rent seeker, you look for people doing things to improve and then take a bet that things will get better than other speculators think. But you are relying on other people doing the work for you, which is risky.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by beaeglebeachh on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:44PM (#40175556)
I question how much of the appreciation is the 'community' volunteer efforts when shank-fest parts of Oakland and other places where negative externalities from non-owners dominate yet property owners are experiencing similar wild appreciation rates.

The most dominating recent appreciation in value is the privilege of a coveted fed induced near 0% mortgage. Owners can laugh at the next generation, damning them to essentially pick up the inflationary tab of their negative real rate loans.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by llamaimperative on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:50PM (#40175605)
The 2.75% mortgages are nationwide. Any differential appreciation is due to the locality (and for the most part not due to geographic realities but cultural/social/economic realities).

In Cupertino, 99.9999% of the appreciation is due to the ultra high-paying jobs there.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 26, 2024 @08:20PM (#40175826)
Asian immigration had a lot to do with it also, it is basically the Richmond BC of the Bay Area getting to 63%.
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by rcpt on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:00PM (#40175265)
If you disentangle the wealth these owners have accumulated as property owners from the other things they've done in life then it makes sense. These conversations always go the same way:

"These owners become wealthy from the work of the community! They didn't create anything!"

"Nuh uh. They volunteered at that beach cleanup and are thus rightly entitled to any property wins."

It's not a new discussion. Here's Churchill talking about a century ago

https://www.landvaluetax.org/history/winston-churchill-said-...

> To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist, as a land monopolist, contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by smallmancontrov on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:49PM (#40175178)
> You paid property taxes

Sure, back them out of the appreciation.

> you participated civically

...by voting to block development that might have reduced your appreciation. Lol.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by nickff on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:56PM (#40175239)
I thought the parent made some good points that I hadn’t considered before. Why are you “Lol”-ing (I assume derisively)? Did they disrespect you in a way which justifies rudeness?
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by llamaimperative on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:20PM (#40175406)
The return for participating in your community is participating in your community. The return for opening a store and serving your community is the revenue you get paid for serving your community.

Note that you can do NEITHER of those things and get far more returns than someone who does both, if you merely buy land early and sit on it. In fact you get to extract wealth from the people who do either/both in perpetuity. If they find more ways to be more valuable to the community, good news for you: you get an even bigger paycheck for doing literally nothing.

So yeah, if they did x y z things in their community, they got all the returns of x y and z… and the returns of simply owning land.

Not to pattern match too much, but the person who winds up with a shack sitting on a $2MM lot in an ultra-high COL area is almost certainly not a major contributor to community thriving.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by seanmcdirmid on Friday April 26, 2024 @08:17PM (#40175809)
So a speculator, they are taking a chance that the work of others will improve the community and raise their investment. Got it, morally not right, but also very risky, these people lose their shirts just as often as they make it big.

Ok, then the old couple who bought the "shack" in the 1970s and finally are selling now. Why do you claim they weren't a contributor in the community? Let's say the guy was a garbage man while their wife worked for the DMV. They raised their kids and whatever, in that shack. They never banked on it being worth $2MM, it just happened. They provided value to the community, ok, they didn't create that much value, but its not like they were camping on the land just for the appreciation.

The real problem with CA is proposition 13, which makes the cost of owning and sitting on land relatively cheap over a long period of time. But ya, that garbage man would have been forced out of their house maybe in the 90s without it, but it would make property speculation a lot less profitable because long term positions would be very expensive.

In China, this is even a larger problem because they lack property tax at all in most places, you pay your taxes up front in a land acquisition tax and then you can just leave your apartment unrenovated and market it as brand new 20 years later to make a few million dollars.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by llamaimperative on Friday April 26, 2024 @08:25PM (#40175860)
The idea of your old couple down the street is certainly romantic but almost never the case, and isn't the case here:

> Neighbors told Perez that the home was initially used as a hunting cabin.

A 1940s recreation instrument.

> It was later used by the family as a rental but became vacant for some time.

Then vacant.

Agreed that Prop 13 and China are both getting this wrong, too.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by david_shi on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:31PM (#40175029)
georgism intensifies…
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by beaeglebeachh on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:40PM (#40175097)
Nah it was created by them when they voted to make housing an NFT limited by very high barrier regulatory environment. They bought in before the minting cost was wildly raised at their own direction.

In many cases in CA the non-property owning community drags the property value down because all those pesky people you made homeless through idiotic policy are shitting on your sidewalk, and rich potential buyers don't enjoy that.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by jedberg on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:30PM (#40175024)
> and they'll build a new 4000-sqft 2-story which will be listed for $5M+.

Cupertino regulations won't let them build quite that big unless it's two stories and basement, but yeah, you're right about what will most likely happen.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by philsnow on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:14PM (#40175363)
> this house will be purchased by a developer & razed, and they'll build a new 4000-sqft 2-story which will be listed for $5M+

Reminds me of this empty lot that sold for about $4M https://archive.is/z9tru , if you believe Zillow/Redfin, they claim the property is now worth $12M.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by lfnoise on Friday April 26, 2024 @07:00PM (#40175264)
Here's a 352 sq ft house with a 4400 sq ft lot that sold for $1.7M on April 2. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/420-Franklin-St-Mountain-...
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by goodcjw2 on Friday April 26, 2024 @05:56PM (#40174761)
But that headline will not be interesting at all to be news worthy...
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by smallmancontrov on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:40PM (#40175095)
Not news worthy, but definitely interesting. One camp says that the purpose of property rights is to incentivize value-additive economic activity by connecting investment to reward. A different camp says that the purpose of (asset) property rights is to pay rich people for being rich, thereby establishing and reinforcing a class hierarchy where the people on the bottom pay to exist and the people on top get paid to exist.

Improvement value has a shape that mostly fits the former narrative while land value has a shape that mostly fits the latter narrative. Whenever you observe a sale that establishes a relative proportion between land value and improvement value, you are observing the market's revealed opinion on the relative validity of these conflicting political narratives.

That isn't just interesting, it's fascinating.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by Scoundreller on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:14PM (#40174898)
do you skip various forms of property insurance (other than liability and contents) ? Or does the mortgage company (if you have one) require it anyway and you're basically paying for nothing?
Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by saalweachter on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:29PM (#40175019)
I can't speak with certainty on the topic, but my guess would be that you're starting -- assuming you're an individual buying this lot to build a house to live in -- with a building loan which will turn into a mortgage when the house is finished.

A building loan is how the bank limits its liability on a property that cannot yet act as collateral to a mortgage -- you go to the bank with a plan for how you're going to build a house, and they only give you the funds to complete it as different milestones are met. You get so much money for the foundation, so much for the framing, etc etc etc.

If you successfully build a house in the time period given, the loan converts to a mortgage, secured by the new house, if you don't ... I'm not sure actually. Probably they start expecting payments on the loan at the much less favorable unsecured loan rate, then take over the property when you fail to make payments, to auction off and minimize their losses.

Re:Tiny in size, a Cupertino home is selling for big bucks: ... by ProfessorLayton on Friday April 26, 2024 @06:22PM (#40174973)
Depends on the kind of loan. A conventional loan requires a home to be habitable and for the buyer to live in it for a specified amount of time, plus insurance.

A developer may have their own financing arrangement.