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Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by dralley on Thursday April 25, 2024 @01:27AM (#40153771)
There's definitely more than one problem with defense procurement, one of the biggest problems is simply having straightforward, acheivable goals in the first place and not fucking with them halfway through the process.

And honestly at this point the Air Force is handling this much better than the other branches. Despite all the delays and cost overruns on the F-22 and F-35 projects, at least we ended up with really fantastic and capable platforms. The B-21 is also basically on time and budget, which is nice.

Compare that to the Navy's LCS program, a massively expensive clusterfuck with very few redeeming qualities.

The Army is somewhere in the middle.

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by 7thaccount on Thursday April 25, 2024 @07:05AM (#40155950)
The LCS situation is embarrassing. What is the navy working on now? Replacements to the Arleigh Burke destroyers?
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by relaxing on Thursday April 25, 2024 @07:35AM (#40156180)
Depends on what you mean by “working.” DDG-1000 is still kicking around try in my to figure out what to do with itself. DDG(X) is in a requirements development phase. FFG-62 is actually getting built. There are various autonomous surface and sub efforts that may turn into something.
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by ethbr1 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @09:13AM (#40157122)
They're also upgrading some Arleigh Burkes (and everything bigger that will stay in service) with SEWIP Block III (EW).
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by iraqmtpizza on Thursday April 25, 2024 @07:52AM (#40156328)
The new hotness is the Constellation-class frigate which chose a mature design to keep costs down. That was until feature creep completely consumed it in record time:

"At one point the Constellation design shared about 85 percent commonality with the original FREMM design, but the alterations have brought that commonality down to under 15 percent, a person familiar with the changes told USNI News."

https://news.usni.org/2024/04/02/constellation-frigate-deliv...

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by 7thaccount on Thursday April 25, 2024 @08:53AM (#40156915)
Every single time.
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by mesofile on Thursday April 25, 2024 @08:32AM (#40156707)
"Starve before doing business with the damned Navy. They don't know what the hell they want and will drive you up a wall before they break either your heart or a more exposed part of your anatomy."

— Kelly Johnson

Shocking that this quote still rings true a half-century later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Johnson_(engineer)#Kelly...

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by justin66 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @11:30AM (#40158736)
Ben Rich expanded on Johnson's advice regarding the Navy in his book, although I think he also conceded that the Navy has some pretty good engineers.
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by ToDougie on Thursday April 25, 2024 @12:07PM (#40159276)
Skunk Works is such a fantastic book. Would recommend to all engineers.
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by eropple on Thursday April 25, 2024 @08:48AM (#40156855)
> Compare that to the Navy's LCS program, a massively expensive clusterfuck with very few redeeming qualities.

Which, to be fair to the Navy, is as much Congressional meddling and military procurement seeding--if you stop paying your contractors, they stop being military contractors and the knowledge you'd like walks out the door, which doesn't excuse the LCS program but does explain some of it--as anything else.

When we say that we're bad at procurement in the United States, there's a lot of targets for blame. (I think you're right that the Air Force tends to have the best project execution of the service branches though.)

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by ethbr1 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @09:07AM (#40157057)
Imho, the service branches are defined by and structured around the type of equipment required to complete their missions.

The Navy builds years-long expensive ships, then sends them halfway around the world under command of someone. It has a structure to facilitate that.

The Army (at best) efficiency organizes a huge amount of people and material, and it deploys and sustains it wherever needed. It has a structure to facilitate that.

The Air Force procures, operates, and sustains the most technical platforms. So it's gotten halfway decent at doing that, or at least learned some lessons from repeated mistakes. It has a structure to facilitate that.

(And the Marines scrounge through everyone's trash bin, cobble something together, and come out armed to the teeth)

Point being, if you look at the people who have risen to the ranks of power, they've been moulded to fit their service culture. Which means some services might not be as good as procurement...

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by sandworm101 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @10:59AM (#40158389)
>> The Air Force procures, operates, and sustains the most technical platforms.

Space force. It is like flying a billion-dollar fighter jet that you will never be allowed to repair after it takes off for the first time.

Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by ethbr1 on Thursday April 25, 2024 @03:36PM (#40162022)
Space Force is still mostly Air Force though, and I'd expect it to take awhile to form it's own culture.
Re:Air Force picks Anduril, General Atomics to develop unman... by Shawnj2 on Friday April 26, 2024 @10:44AM (#40169975)
Cost plus contracts are a mistake. If you get paid to do something, it should be for a fixed price not a variable number that encourages you to waste as much taxpayer money as you want. If you can’t do it for that price you need to increase your estimate until you can.