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Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by nimbius on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:09PM (#40135923)
Please file in a calm and orderly fashion toward the exits and remember: IBM killed Centos for profit.

Terraform users can pick up their new alternative here:

https://opentofu.org/

and for those of you with Vault, you can find your new alternative here:

https://openbao.org/

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by dralley on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:35PM (#40136229)
>IBM killed Centos for profit

The community is better off with the combination of AlmaLinux + CentOS Stream.

AlmaLinux provides differentiation by supporting hardware and patches that Red Hat doesn't necessarily want to.

CentOS Stream provides a way for all downstream distros (Red Hat, Alma, Oracle, Rocky, whatever) to contribute back to the ecosystem in a way that is deeper than submitting bug reports to bugzilla.redhat.com

The latter point is something people really miss. CentOS was not much of an "open source" project in the same way that Android isn't much of an "open source" project. There was few ways to contribute directly beyond filing a bug report and waiting for Red Hat / Google to handle it. CentOS Stream is vastly more open as a project.

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by growse on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @06:17PM (#40138026)
Wasn't the value of centos that it was bug-yor-bug compatible with RHEL but without the license fee requirement?
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by dralley on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @06:36PM (#40138151)
>bug-yor-bug compatible with RHEL

It was never quite that, but that was the theory.

The problem is because it was an exact clone of RHEL, it's somewhere between difficult and impossible to have a proper community around it. Like I said it kind of revolved around "file a bug to Red Hat, wait for someone to pick it up, and then wait more for it to be shipped, which will be months away at best and could be years if it's not a paying customer's priority"

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by yencabulator on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @06:46PM (#40138223)
What I've seen people use CentOS for is testing a product intended to run on RHEL. For that, CentOS didn't need a separate community, and bugfixing at a pace different from RHEL would have been actively undesirable.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by dralley on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @08:15PM (#40138929)
For that purpose, RHEL is completely free to begin with
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by mattl on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @08:35PM (#40139081)
Yeah RHEL has had a gratis developer license from their website for maybe a decade now?

Before that I would pay $49 a year for it.

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by yencabulator on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @10:53PM (#40139954)
As far as I understand, you still need to connect to the Red Hat license server, and you're limited to 16 machines. That's just stupidly unsuitable for a CI worker pool of hundreds of VMs being created from scratch for every run.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by mattl on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @11:11PM (#40140074)
Yeah that’s something they’d want you to pay for.

I totally get why CentOS was useful. I was briefly involved with Rocky when it first was getting started.

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by bonzini on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:06AM (#40142154)
If you do pay for RHEL you can have free non production subscriptions. Of course it's probably suspicious to pay for 1 production and 20000 testing servers, but it's pretty good if you are too small to negotiate an unlimited-machine subscription and you want to use RHEL in production.

https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2022/07/06/what-quali...

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by op00to on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @06:09PM (#40150415)
Not for production purposes.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by dralley on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @10:26PM (#40152638)
OP was talking about testing purposes.

But RHEL is free for limited production purposes also, to a maximum of 16 systems.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-introduces-free-rhel-f...

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by otterley on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:29PM (#40136148)
> IBM killed Centos for profit.

That process began happening long before the IBM acquisition when Red Hat hired Karanbir Singh (CentOS's maintainer) in 2014.

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by vram22 on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @07:13PM (#40138453)
What's the story behind that?

IIRC, I saw something about it on HN at the time, but did not read it, being busy.

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by bonzini on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:09AM (#40142170)
Red Hat had open source/community versions of their products, for example OpenShift Origin (now OKD) and RDO (for OpenStack). They wanted to use CentOS but it was not working well because release dates of CentOS were not predictable.

So they acquihired CentOS, but in doing that they changed its target from "community of users [that don't want to pay for RHEL]" to "community of developers that target RHEL". CentOS Stream is much better (though not perfect) for the latter population.

That said, there are many people using CentOS Stream in production (including myself).

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by vram22 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @02:30PM (#40147927)
Got it, thanks.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by thayne on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @04:46PM (#40137063)
What about Packer? Vagrant? Consul?
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by sethops1 on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:30PM (#40136169)
Do you even realize OpenBao is an IBM initiative?
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by stuff4ben on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:32PM (#40136190)
It's not, it's a Linux Foundation initiative with some IBM developers involved. IBM cannot kill it.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by vmatsiiako on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:38PM (#40136264)
Do you know that OpenBao is actually funded by IBM?

I'm biased (co-founder) but you should take a look at Infisical for secret management: https://infisical.com

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by stuff4ben on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:43PM (#40136330)
As I said elsewhere, it's not. It's an open source project, under the Linux Foundation umbrella, with all of the good licensing that goes along with that. It has some contributors who are also IBM employees, but to say they're "funded by IBM" is a bit of a stretch.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by cipherboy on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @03:52PM (#40136465)
FWIW, most of the code and docs contributions have come from non-IBMers [0]. That said, IBM has done a lot of great work building the foundation and initial community and without them, OpenBao wouldn't be here. :-)

Speaking for myself, but I do not get any monetary compensation from IBM and I suspect this is true for all of the other non-IBM contributors.

[0]: https://github.com/openbao/openbao/releases/tag/v2.0.0-alpha...

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by andrenth on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @05:08PM (#40137278)
Is someone working on a Nomad fork?
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by mdaniel on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @05:16PM (#40137374)
I don't have any further insight, but looking at <https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad/forks?include=active&page...> coughed up https://github.com/atlassian/nomad/branches although confusingly it says "updated last week" but browsing any one of the branches seems to be stupid old so I got nothing

Finding conceptual forks, e.g. $(git push --mirror ...) would be trickier but I bet sourcegraph could do it

Ultimately, the question boils down to: what risk are you driving down: hitching your wagon to a dead stack, not getting security updates, not getting PRs merged, $other?

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by bobo_legos on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @06:58PM (#40138323)
Off topic but how is Nomad for running production workloads? My org has been wanting to push into containerization, but we're finding the complexity of k8s a high barrier to entry given our small team and lack of in house knowledge.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by mroche on Tuesday April 23, 2024 @11:43PM (#40140296)
Is there a specific aspect of k8s that's causing friction along the learning curve? I'm assuming your referring to the developer side of the equation, not the ops/admin workflows.

Before jumping straight into production k8s, something you can mess around with is using Podman to generate[0] and run[1] Kubernetes resources that you can parse through and familiarize yourself with. Paired with Podman Desktop[2] can produce a nice graphical environment. After that you could take a look at more production-simulating environments with minikube[3], OpenShift Local[4] (very much recommend if you have the resources to run it), and the no-cost OpenShift Sandbox[5].

In general, the Red Hat Developer[6] site has a lot of good resources to learn from, both passive and interactive. I highly recommend going through the courses and tutorials available if it can help your team skill up (assuming k8s is the direction you want to go in).

[0] https://docs.podman.io/en/latest/markdown/podman-generate.1....

[1] https://docs.podman.io/en/latest/markdown/podman-kube.1.html

[2] https://podman.io/features | https://podman-desktop.io/

[3] https://minikube.sigs.k8s.io/docs/

[4] https://developers.redhat.com/products/openshift-local/overv...

[5] https://developers.redhat.com/developer-sandbox

[6] https://developers.redhat.com/

Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by proxysna on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @07:15AM (#40142959)
Been running both nomad and k8s in prod for the last few years. Nomad has been stable and reliable to the point of replacing k8s in some projects because of how easy it is to work with and onboard developers.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by ckdarby on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @05:03PM (#40149613)
If that is the driving force use a managed provider the AWS elastic container service or Google's app engine.
Re:IBM nearing a buyout deal for HashiCorp, source says by hpb42 on Wednesday April 24, 2024 @09:46AM (#40144367)
Maybe Incus[0] as an alternative instead of fork.

- [0] https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/docs/main/