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Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by carbine on Monday April 15, 2024 @11:55AM (#40042236)
I'm definitely not comparing people working on a SaaS app to emergency docs and nurses, but this dynamic happens a lot in startups and it's something to watch as a manager.

People go to the most effective people with their problems and high-stakes projects. The reward for good work is more work.

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by listenallyall on Monday April 15, 2024 @12:41PM (#40042836)
Happens in companies of every size and industry. Colleagues quickly figure out who the competent person is on some obscure task and repeatedly direct requests specifically to that person. And after weeks/months of overwork or overdelivering, when they finally say no to something, people get offended, call the person rude or a jerk, it sometimes even leads to their dismissal.
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by BizarroLand on Monday April 15, 2024 @02:56PM (#40044307)
On a small team I was doing ~65% of the total number of tickets and not just the easy ones.

Then one of the other people on the team, one of the lowest performers, got promoted over me and I lost it. Apparently the CIO wasn't looking at the metrics.

He made sure I got a raise and got slotted in for the next available promotion, which was only a few months away.

Then the company that was contracting us early termed their contract, and they only asked me to stay to build a new team, based on the CIO's recommendation. Metrics are a pain but they can also be a life saver.

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by htrp on Monday April 15, 2024 @02:11PM (#40043833)
Shouldn't you as the manager be directing traffic here. Product shouldn't be going directly to engineers to try and campaign / dump workload on people?
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by delecti on Monday April 15, 2024 @03:21PM (#40044627)
This is occasionally a problem that the specific engineer enables. It's normal for an engineer to work directly with product, and if they develop a rapport they'll start side-stepping management with additional requests. Over-eager engineers will then sometimes train PMs that they're a good place to make those requests, even if they're big enough that they should be prioritized in the normal flow.
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by onthecanposting on Monday April 15, 2024 @04:01PM (#40044954)
Different people have different motive forces in their lives. Some people hate work and would be upset by losing their leisure time. Some people love the glory of challenging or prestigious projects and would welcome that situation.

A good manager knows the difference.

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by abeppu on Monday April 15, 2024 @04:19PM (#40045094)
... but maybe healthy organizations should figure out how to let people doing challenging or prestigious projects have work-life balance and "leisure time" (or dependent care responsibilities, etc), and be appropriately compensated? It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It's also possible to enjoy working for a while at an unsustainable pace, but a good manager should often tamp back on this b/c:

(a) an IC that burns themselves out and has a long recovery period of lower engagement may be less effective than an IC with sustained productivity and

(b) the swing between high and low productivity can cause issues for the team overall, esp if peers at first try to compete on pace and then have to shift to share the weight after someone burns out

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by commandlinefan on Monday April 15, 2024 @05:46PM (#40046027)
and if they thought you _would_ be able to pull it off in a couple of days, but it's more complicated than they thought and takes a couple of weeks, they'll accuse you of lying and pretending it was harder than it was.
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by ore0s on Monday April 15, 2024 @05:53PM (#40046108)
What's your advice to someone who lives this dynamic? I've experienced it, and felt it slowed down my career trajectory. I want to make a change in my story and will try my best to listen.
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by chambers on Monday April 15, 2024 @07:19PM (#40046754)
I've lived this dynamic as a manager. I've come to see it as a problem of "ownership". When competent people try to be responsible & knowledgeable with a piece of work but lack control or a mandate for that piece of work to be done well. Think "engineers are ready to launch a new feature but the PM struggles with written English; they can't draft an email." What does one do?

Draft it yourself, try to train the PM, say "no" and tell them it's not your responsibility, do only a part of the editing, or become a PM and "own" the email. In all cases, I think the effective professionals I've observed either redefine the work to require less control or they set a price for "above-and-beyond" service, to be paid in political capital.

If the professional avoids pricing, then they're saying their time is free. That person get marked as a patsy or a cog. Someone who messes can be dumped on and who, thanks to corporate Pavlovian conditioning, gets work done without upsetting the status quo. The more messy the work is, the less control you have, the more time you personally need to sacrifice. It's a recipe for burn out, role confusion, and other people's ideals becoming your own performance standards.

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by ore0s on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:55PM (#40047657)
This speaks a lot to me. If an integration was new, or I'd never managed resources before, or worked cross-org in any way, I'd just pick it up. I'd even do the PM's job of interviewing the customers, validating if we were targeting real painpoints, and attempting to drive product direction.

Over a few years I worked on several projects, which all became the company's product suite. They all gained adoption, became very valuable and were sold to several customers, but they were not reliable. Even less so after they moved me off. But they were solving real problems, and customers were still happy, and so the company still kept them alive with bigger teams.

The company attained unicorn status, but I never really got ownership of any 1 project or product. I'd get increasing requests for help across the growing product suite, was able to help effectively, and simultaneously took on new feature development work.

In the latter part of my time there, I found out I may have been in the bottom quartile of pay for the team I was in, while being perceived as the top performer by coworkers.

I was in a slow 'burn out' but never fully checked out. Maybe because I think I rarely put in over 50 hours a week. Never touched comms during weekends.

Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by GoToRO on Monday April 15, 2024 @06:26PM (#40046411)
I don't know <- this is the advice
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by ore0s on Monday April 15, 2024 @09:56PM (#40047660)
Thanks! I'm going to try this right now.
Re:The hero tax: Why 'selfless' workers are professionally e... by thr0way120 on Monday April 15, 2024 @08:30PM (#40047156)
I like to work. What drove me up the wall at my last job was the GenZ workers who did ALMOST NOTHING. and HAD TO BE TOLD What TO DO over and OVER AND OVER and they STILL DIDNT DO IT.

If I am a CEO, and I have to tell ANYONE to do something three times and they still don't do it. THAT PERSON IS FUCKING FIRED THATS THE RULE.

I had a CEO who seemed to have unlimited tolerance for these people, up to the point of almost doing all the work for them. I finally had enough. I was doing 10 people's jobs and got so exhausted while these GenZ people just did nothing and got away with it.

I have since learned the cure is sand bagging and ghosting. Like you have to learn to inject "pauses." Make your boss wait a day or two. It is self preservation.

In music there is a "rest" concept in a rhythm. You are smart to learn to use "rests" as part of your work cadence and to develop a sense of how to get away with delays properly. Its better for everyone.

Rests / pauses in the work stream are necessary and important, allow space to think.