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Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by fleshmonad on Sunday April 07, 2024 @05:15PM (#39964003)
Note that I am a German. I would say there are few. Bad education, especially in schools, a broken railway and public transport system, as well as incredibly high taxes. You may say "free healthcare" and a point can be made here, but when you take a look at the high taxes you have to pay, it's not worth it, if your income is above average. All in all it's a mess and I haven't even begun speaking about German people and their mentality, as well as poverty and unsuccessful immigration.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by Keyframe on Sunday April 07, 2024 @05:49PM (#39964268)
(rants)

yep, you are German alright!

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by MrJohz on Sunday April 07, 2024 @07:16PM (#39964792)
Truly the worst thing about living in Germany is the apparent national hobby of complaining about things that perhaps aren't great, but really aren't as bad as you might think.

In practice, German schools are pretty decent, but they obsess about PISA scores and so neglect to ever notice what the schools are doing well. The train networks are fairly extensive, can be quite cheap depending on how you travel, and consistent across the country, but a lot of Germans would much rather complain about how late they are than recognise anything positive about the system. The general public transport networks (i.e. transport inside towns and cities) are amazing, and one of the things that I would most miss if I went anywhere else.

I think part of it is just that if you're German, you rarely see these systems from an outside perspective, so you only see the points that chafe regularly. But another part of it really is just that German tendency to criticise first rather than to view things holistically.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by sien on Sunday April 07, 2024 @07:29PM (#39964847)
I went on exchange to Germany.

Somehow there should be a ranking of the foreign language abilities of countries. There Germany would do incredibly well.

It's strange that people obsess over math school rankings, but how many people do calculus beyond their schooling where as many, many people use a foreign language often in their work.

It's a non-BS thing people can learn at school and something that Northern Europeans do spectacularly well at.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Monday April 08, 2024 @02:34AM (#39966830)
I disagree heavily. Just because you have trains going everywhere (that's not a Germany-specific thing) doesn't mean they are allowed to be hours late. The transport system is broken, was destroyed by trying to cut costs in the past.

Same with schools and educators. And don't get me started on healthcare.

Your sentiment is part of the problem to be honest: Germans are always complaining, it's fine as it is bla bla. It is if you compare yourself to third world countries. But we compete with Japan, Switzerland, the nordics and so on. Also note that this is not a sentiment that is only found in Germans but also a lot of (high value) immigrants who move on after touching base. Germany has a lot of potential but utilizes that very little.

Why would I recognize anything positive about the transport system that has a high likelihood of making my trip a nightmare? It's literally the most important thing, to get me from a to b. That doesn't work with massive delays, cancellations, reschedulings and I miss my connections.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by MrJohz on Monday April 08, 2024 @04:08AM (#39967343)
I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country. And to be clear, I agree that DB have been absolutely awful with delays and a lack of proper track maintenance.

But to present that as a full picture of the German transport system is to be completely myopic, and that's the issue. Yes, improvement is possible and necessary, but it's also nice to celebrate the successes of your country, and having a single system that covers pretty much all of the country, that integrates regional and intercity travel, that has a transparent and reasonably cost-effective pricing structure, that includes deals like the Länder-Tickets and the 49€ ticket, that is clean, and many other things besides feels like a success to me.

Do there need to be changes and improvements? Yes, of course! But this sort of self-flagellation ("oh woe is us, our transport system isn't perfect") is really tiring.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Monday April 08, 2024 @06:53AM (#39968390)
> I'm comparing this mostly to the UK, which is not a third world country.

I'm not so sure at this point. Comparing ourselves to the UK would be sad tbh.

Yes the 49€ ticket is a nice achievement. But again, it's not about having a perfect transport system. It's having one that is representative to our position in the world, our wealth etc. Buses are something of a gamble. Trains are notoriously unreliable. The same goes for a lot of regional/local providers. That's basic. Things like nice seatings, luxuries, food etc. would make it perfect. But you need to cover the basics first.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by earthnail on Monday April 08, 2024 @03:04AM (#39966996)
For what it’s worth, I’m German and live in Sweden and the train network is significantly worse than in Germany.

There are serious structural deficiencies at Deutsche Bahn, absolutely. But the gras is also always greener elsewhere. The nordics don’t have a better train network.

It’s bad enough in Sweden that a Chinese company has started offering the MTRX, basically the ICE equivalent between the two largest cities (although much slower, more like an IC) and that’s the best connection you can get. Imagine the outcry if that was the case in Germany for Munich-Berlin…

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Monday April 08, 2024 @06:57AM (#39968415)
So I've heard. I once did a train trip vom Braunschweig to Narvik. Braunschweig to Hamburg was typical: the waggon I had a reservation in was not provided. So the train was not only late but overfilled. The danish train again from Hamburg to Kopenhagen was perfect.

The polar express from Stockholm to Narvik was awesome. On the trip down we had problems with construction and ice, so we were stranded in Abisko. We were taken with buses to a hotel, got food and even got a refund + 700skr deduction for our next trip. No questions asked. The experience was the opposite of the one you get in Germany. No bureaucracy. We got the SMS after Riksgränsen!

The next day I couldn't make my original train from Stockholm to Kopenhagen, so the train conductor just got me a new ticket for free. No questions asked. No bureaucracy.

Clear communication, situation well handled, all good. So at least this part blew my mind! Also the ticket control by just checking seats. Awesome.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by Tainnor on Thursday April 11, 2024 @06:18AM (#40000535)
My problem with Germany at the moment isn't that it's objectively so bad - although you can certainly find places where certain things run better, such as Switzerland - but that it's getting worse and that for the last two decades, very little has been done politically to modernise. People and politics are happy with the status quo, not realising that in a changing world, the status quo isn't just going to maintain itself.

So I think we need some of that outrage you're channeling in order to make our politicians (and society) accountable when they become too complacent. But I also think it's not effective when you overshoot and start painting in a much worse light than it actually is - because all those other countries have problems too. There's a lot that went wrong with Deutsche Bahn (and it's of course nowhere near the level of SBB in Switzerland), but most of the time the system is reliable, decent and high-frequency and -density enough, which is something that is just not true in many areas of the world, even in Europe (there are enough places even in Europe where you wouldn't want to live without a car).

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Sunday April 14, 2024 @04:56AM (#40029753)
Heavily agree with your first paragraph! I'm contemplating on leaving Germany, because I think that this is just the beginning. Idiotic politicians wasting money on bullshit and not seeing the problems we have. More bureaucracy, less motivation to move things (let's all reduce the time we work), less value for your money, less security and more resignation. I don't see a path forward except me leaving this dumpster fire to be. I cannot build the life I want here and have the opportunity to leave, so why not ... I don't see any way how this can change without a bigger reset.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by precompute on Monday April 22, 2024 @03:16PM (#40117744)
What country would you move to? The USA?
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by jonathanstrange on Monday April 08, 2024 @04:47AM (#39967591)
German whining is one of the reasons why I'm glad I've left Germany, but now I've just realized that this is exactly what whiny German abroad would say.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by barbazoo on Sunday April 07, 2024 @08:13PM (#39965066)
In certain parts of Germany the German equivalent of "You really can't complain" is the highest form of praise.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Sunday April 07, 2024 @09:23PM (#39965413)
The sentence "You really can't complain" is a complain itself.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by dkga on Monday April 08, 2024 @12:25AM (#39966193)
Yes, never noted that!
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by lrem on Sunday April 07, 2024 @05:30PM (#39964118)
Looks like you really want to move to Switzerland :D
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by fransje26 on Monday April 08, 2024 @05:02AM (#39967680)
To then start complaining about the costs of living..?
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Sunday April 07, 2024 @09:20PM (#39965399)
Incredibly high taxes? Denmark has higher taxes.

And don't forget Germany has one of the lowest annual working hours in the world

https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Monday April 08, 2024 @02:29AM (#39966802)
You're misinformed. Second highest tax burden [1], in Europe and the OECD [2].

[1] https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/tax-burden-on-labo... [2] https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/tax-burden-labor-europ...

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Monday April 08, 2024 @03:45AM (#39967227)
Never trust a conservative think tank on taxes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation

>Payroll taxes are typically flat-rate taxes levied on wages and are in addition to the taxes on income. In most OECD countries, both the employer and the employee pay payroll taxes. These taxes usually fund specific social programs, such as unemployment insurance, health insurance, and old age insurance.

Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose.

If you would replace social security and pension contributions by private insurances with the same costs people wouldn't have more money available but the Germany's index position would be better.

You could even double the costs and the index would claim an advantage for workers even though they would have less money.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by RamblingCTO on Monday April 08, 2024 @07:02AM (#39968448)
Sooo is statisa [1] also a conservative think tank? I don't see anything wrong with the quote you provided.

> Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose.

Not sure I can follow. Of course the pensions and social security are quite substantially tax funded [2].

[1] https://de.statista.com/infografik/13660/oecd-vergleich-steu... [2] https://www.ihre-vorsorge.de/rente/nachrichten/haushalt-fuer...

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:33AM (#39969559)
They used the pension money for other things so it's logical to pay it back. And just because tax money is used for pensions doesn't mean the socuial security and pension contributions are tax burden.

Like I said, if all social security was through private insurance the tax burden would be lower but the people wouldn't have more money.

Health insurance proved otherwise. As long as you are healthy you pay less but as soon you get sick more often it gets way more expensive.

But the later wouldn't be recognized as tax burden.

Tax burden itself is a useless measure, the total cost of living is better.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by vereinbar on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:20AM (#39970000)
>Like I said, if all social security was through private insurance the tax burden would be lower but the people wouldn't have more money.

It won't be that lower. The German pension has existing liabilities that they must pay. Since it is backed by the state, it will inevitably be paid by the taxes.

Even if the pension payments were abolished, just to pay existing entitlements, the taxes would be increased proportionally. The public pension can be considered a plus in a young country with a healthy demographics. In a geriatric state such as Germany, it is a big burden.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by vereinbar on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:02AM (#39969284)
The Tax Foundation simply presents the data collected by the OECD[1]. You don't have to trust them.

>Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose.

This is wrong. Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions. The German pension system is effectively bankrolled every year with the tax money.

>If you would replace social security and pension contributions by private insurances with the same costs people wouldn't have more money available but the Germany's index position would be better.

This is also wrong. The other countries have social security (For example: Australia). Unlike Germany, they don't charge for public pension separately. The contributions are included in the income tax. So it makes perfect sense to include it in the total tax burden for Germany.

[1]-https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-germany.pdf

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Monday April 08, 2024 @09:27AM (#39969514)
> Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions.

Because the pension contributions are used for non-insurance benefits that should actually be paid for by all taxpayers, such as the mothers' pension or the equalization of pensions for retirees in East and West Germany.

BTW "every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions" proves social security and pension contributions aren't taxes. Tax money is a subsidy not the main source.

>This is also wrong.

That part is totally missing my point. It's about the ranking. Without public social security the ranking would be better but worse for the workers and just because it's a tax in Autralia you can't simply count it as a tax in Germany.

If you want to compare you need the total costs of living not the tax burden. Tax burden is just leverage to help companies and harm workers.

Replace taxes by fees and the tax foundation is happy, the people not so much.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by vereinbar on Monday April 08, 2024 @10:09AM (#39969868)
>If you want to compare you need the total costs of living not the tax burden. >Incredibly high taxes? Denmark has higher taxes.

Why would you compare total cost of living to find which country has the higher taxes? It doesn't make sense. Besides, you claimed Denmark had higher taxes. It has been proven that it was wrong.

>Tax burden is just leverage to help companies and harm workers.

I would like to hear how you reached this conclusion.

>just because it's a tax in Autralia you can't simply count it as a tax in Germany.

Yes you can, if your goal is to make a fair comparison between countries. The OECD uses it for measuring the tax burden on income. Especially because, the countries like Germany use 'creative labelling' to hide how much money they collect each year.

>Because the pension contributions are used for non-insurance benefits that should actually be paid for by all taxpayers, such as the mothers' pension or the equalization of pensions for retirees in East and West Germany. BTW "every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions" proves social security and pension contributions aren't taxes. Tax money is a subsidy not the main source.

You've just proven my point. Because the money can be easily shuffled around, in practice, it is no different than income tax.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by n_ary on Monday April 08, 2024 @02:42AM (#39966879)
> And don't forget Germany has one of the lowest annual working hours in the world

Of course if you are a civil servant or part of some mega union, but for the rest of the private plebs it is often 9h daily(because lunch break is not part of contract) and most do a long commute(because of eternal housing crisis) which may raise it to 12-14h easily.

Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by croes on Monday April 08, 2024 @03:46AM (#39967237)
Same is valid in other countries. Germany isn't the capital of worker exploitation.
Re:How to Found a Company in Germany: 14 "Easy" Steps and Lo... by mimotomo2009 on Monday April 08, 2024 @05:12AM (#39967746)
Mmmhh... I don't think the OECD data is not working comparing countries:

"The data are published with the following health warning: The data are intended for comparisons of trends over time; they are unsuitable for comparisons of the level of average annual hours of work for a given year, because of differences in their sources and method of calculation."

Yes, in Germany are many part-time workers but overall mostly they are not working 6 hours the day . Normal is - afaik - 8 hours per day on approx. 220 days in a year.