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Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by idontwantthis on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @07:33PM (#39912001)
If you did some kind of shell game with 5 different people all passing around their items, then you don’t get charged correctly is it theft? Did anyone ever try that?
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by baumy on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @08:04PM (#39912189)
I worked for Amazon in Seattle when Amazon Go first launched. As you'd expect, lots of SDE teams made games out of trying to fool the thing in various ways.

A few attempts were successful early on (passing items back and forth, one person moving something to the wrong shelf and another person picking it up, people dressing in identical outfits, etc), but the success rate in fooling the system was very very low. No method of trying to trick it that I ever heard of worked consistently, and it definitely seemed to get harder to fool the longer the store was open.

At the time I thought that whatever algos were being run on the camera feeds were getting better. Knowing that it was basically all manual, I'm not sure what the explanation is for the store seemingly getting harder to fool over time. Possibly just placebo, or people lost interest in trying so hard to fool it.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by burntalmonds on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @09:53PM (#39912844)
Thomas Crown Affair at the grocery store.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by eyegor on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:03AM (#39913497)
Probably fewer patrons and similar number of employees in the sweatshops. More eyes per patron leads to fewer errors. Or maybe they trained the best grocery cv model around from having a big high quality dataset, and you were fighting it. But then I'd think the tech would've been passed to whole foods instead of packing up shop, so final guess is sweatshop singularity theory.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by throwazr on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @12:51AM (#39913707)
You underestimated the silicon valley engineers
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by ilikecakeandpie on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @10:49AM (#39918228)
Seems a little cruel in retrospect considering it was humans watching you, but I suppose there wasn't an easy way to gain this information
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by Terr_ on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @09:13PM (#39912629)
> If you did some kind of shell game with 5 different people all passing around their items, then you don’t get charged correctly is it theft?

IANAL but I'm confident the legal answer is "yes", the same as if someone was using sleight-of-hand with objects at a cashier-and-conveyor-belt checkout station.

Whether charges are brought and how easily the case can be proved is another matter, but the intent is what makes it a crime.

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by pcchristie on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @10:09PM (#39912914)
I thought one of the marketing lines was that Amazon was so confident/comfortable in their implementation was that they assumed all liability for mistakes (though as I type this I realise they may have worded it to encapsulate only honest mistakes rather than people trying deliberately to break the system).
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by Terr_ on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @11:32PM (#39913350)
> they assumed all liability for mistakes

To get a little pedantic, assuming such a promise existed, it actually doesn't mean as much as most people think.

A merchant saying "we won't sue you in civil court for the missing money" does not prevent the local government from criminally prosecuting that same person for theft.

American TV dramas often show the police asking people "Do you want to press charges?", but the idea that the question matters is a myth, since victims of crime don't get to decide that. At best, it's a terribly misleading shortening of: "Just for my own private curiosity, do you plan to lobby or press upon your local government officials into pressing charges?"

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by lupire on Tuesday April 02, 2024 @11:05PM (#39913223)
Being forgiven doesn't make it not a crime, or just reduces the chance of enforcement.
Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by astura on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @07:20AM (#39915984)
>though as I type this I realise they may have worded it to encapsulate only honest mistakes rather than people trying deliberately to break the system

Exactly. Retailers generally assume liability for honest mistakes made by their system/employees and sometimes even their customers. However, when people knowingly exploit a loophole for financial gain it becomes fraud. Here's a real example - https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/greensboro-woma...

Re:Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery S... by idontwantthis on Wednesday April 03, 2024 @01:12PM (#39920130)
It sounds different to me because each person can say they were just trying to buy the items they walked out with and didn’t get charged. Like if you scan an item at self checkout and the machine says it’s free, that’s not going to be theft. At least I sure hope not.