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Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by fiprofessor on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:06AM (#39850189)
Prior to the Bush era tax cuts, all dividends were taxed at the income rate, which I think explains the biggest motivation in the shift from dividends to buybacks in that era.

Nowadays, as you say, there is no difference in tax rates for qualified dividends. However, one big remaining benefit of buybacks is that a dividend forces one to incur a taxable event when the dividend is issued, even if one chooses to immediately re-invest the dividend in the company (as many people still in the accumulation phase of investing do). On the other hand, a buyback does not force those people to sell.

On the other hand, a buyback should lower the market cap of a stock, so cap-weighted index funds ought to sell and re-balance when a buyback is issued, so most index investors would seemingly end up selling. However, they end up being able to avoid most of the capital gains taxes by re-balancing through redemptions and heartbeat trades.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by gizmondo on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:22AM (#39850345)
> On the other hand, a buyback should lower the market cap of a stock

You got it backwards. If a stock is priced fairly, a buyback is value-neutral. Reduction of the cash on hand is offset by the increase of future cash flow per share. It's dividends that reduce the market cap.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by fiprofessor on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:28AM (#39850400)
No, because the future cash flow per share is not reflected in the current market cap.

Perhaps you are thinking of share price instead: there it is true that dividends reduce share price, while buybacks are share-price neutral at least theoretically, though it is commonly believed by many people that they do affect price.

(Hence, under that same theoretical model, market cap must decrease if share price remains the same because market cap is total number of outstanding shares * share price. So if the former decreases while the latter stays the same, market cap must have decreased.)

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by gizmondo on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:35AM (#39850467)
You're right, I need a coffee.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by otteromkram on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:24AM (#39850364)
> On the other hand, a buyback should lower the market cap of a stock [...]

Uhh...what?

Buybacks are a return of value. Share prices adjust accordingly to the updated proportion of outstanding stock.

Might want to select a new username, friend.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by pliny on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:32AM (#39850435)
The price of the share stays the same but there are fewer shares, so the market cap would go down.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by mrkstu on Thursday March 28, 2024 @08:43AM (#39850535)
But EPS rises so equilibrium would suggest the price of the share would almost certainly rise to match the old EPS.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by fiprofessor on Thursday March 28, 2024 @09:03AM (#39850777)
The earnings per share certainly increases. But this is (at least theoretically) offset by the fact that the firm's assets have decreased. For example, if the buyback was paid for with cash, then prior to the buyback, the shares represented a claim of ownership not just on future earnings, but also on that cash reserve.

That said, this is all under a theoretical model (as in Miller-Modigliani theorem). In practice/empirically, there is reason to plausibly believe that e.g. the decision to announce a buyback has a signalling effect and so can increase share prices.

Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by mrkstu on Thursday March 28, 2024 @11:31AM (#39852780)
Is there a heuristic for how much of the value of a share is assigned to asset value vs forward looking earnings? Many of the ‘hot’ stocks like Nvidia seem almost all forward looking.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by pliny on Thursday March 28, 2024 @11:50AM (#39852994)
For public companies you don't need a heuristic, as the balance sheet is included in quarterly earnings reports.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by User23 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @09:04AM (#39850794)
Well it certainly makes a market for the lucky duckies who are the counterparties for the buyback. They benefit.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by User23 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @09:03AM (#39850778)
This isn’t even necessarily true for dividend yield let alone for EPS.
Re:Intel Brags of $152B in Stock Buybacks. Why Does It Need ... by jenny91 on Thursday March 28, 2024 @10:21AM (#39851876)
By buying stocks, the company transfers money out of the company and to shareholders. Of course the market cap should go down: the fundamental value of the company has gone down (they have less cash).