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Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by silentbicycle on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @04:09PM (#3983774)
Real-time means something specific: every operation has a hard limit for upper bounded time.

I'm working on an embedded system right now; they typically cannot use garbage collection, because any GC pauses will utterly destroy the project's real-time guarantees. This board's microprocessor has an external hardware watchdog, which reboots the whole system unless I reset a timer every 2.5 msec or less. This is a reasonable limit, because if the program is unresponsive for too long, people may die. (It's automotive hardware.)

I think calling anything running in Javascript and across a network "real-time" is a bit misleading. What you mean is "soft real-time", which is far more forgiving.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by mayop100 on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @04:35PM (#3983896)
(Firebase founder here) I used to work for an RTOS company, so I do understand where you are coming from. Real-time has different meanings in different contexts though. For an operating system it means hard guarantees on response times.

Over a public network this is impossible, so it instead means that data is being pushed to clients as quickly as possible. The "soft real-time" phrasing might be accurate, but it is a distinction that is probably not helpful, as I think it would confuse more people than it would help, and people in the RTOS world know the difference anyways.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by forgotAgain on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @05:39PM (#3984162)
... this is impossible, so it instead means ...

The lack of engineering rigor in that statement taken with the inherent security issues in re-broadcasting messages from a public client to other public clients would make me very leery of using your product.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by mrkurt on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @07:11PM (#3984552)
Is "engineering rigor of statements" always a big part of your criteria for using products?
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by alinajaf on Thursday May 17, 2012 @05:38AM (#3986190)
It is when it comes from the founder of a company that sells itself as a 'scalable realtime backend for your web-app'.
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by forgotAgain on Thursday May 17, 2012 @08:37AM (#3986658)
Yes, always. Isn't it for you?
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by starwed on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @04:20PM (#3983826)
The phrase "real-time" means something very different to most people. When you try to "correct" them by invoking a narrow definition only used within a particular domain, it just comes across as pointless pedantry.
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by silentbicycle on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @04:56PM (#3983989)
I agree it sounds pedantic, but think about how muddled discussions areabout what "object-oriented programming" means. "real-time" is a well-established term and actually means something really specific. Diluting it doesn't benefit anyone.
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by lobo_tuerto on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @11:34PM (#3985258)
So there can only be one meaning? No different meaning depending on the context? ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time

I'd say this is real-time in the context of the interwebs, against the usual request-response cycle.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by pilgrim689 on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @04:22PM (#3983837)
Sys admins have been weeping but slowly getting over the abuse of "cloud" for a while now... safety-critical software engineers will have a shoulder to cry on!

In all seriousness, there's a range of of real-time systems (soft to hard) and systems that contain a mix of these requirements. You can argue that these new "real-time!" javascript systems are soft real-time systems. i.e. they contain a soft real-time constraint for state to propagate to clients before a deadline, after which the system starts losing its quality.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by sitkack on Thursday May 17, 2012 @01:43AM (#3985633)
I am trying to promulgate a neologism of near-time, like real but a little more relaxed. Like the version of time in the CAP theorem. Soon but not like, soon within a bounds. Soon.

Real-time needs to be taken within a context. Your realtime is probably way sloppy for like say laser that starts fusion reactions.

If I were baking a pizza, my watchdog could be set to 5 seconds and be ok (provided the thermal inertia of the oven wasn't ridiculous and my heat source wasn't the said laser).

Near-time. The future is in the near.

Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by hising on Wednesday May 16, 2012 @06:27PM (#3984381)
I get your points for the category of software you are referring to, however I am pretty sure that there will be a common understanding round the subject of "real-time web" and from my point of view I dont see how that can in any way interfere or make things harder for people writing real-time software using non-web-tech. I find it unlikely that the big web developer community will use a new terminology to describe what they are building in order to please the old-school real-time developers.
Re:Say hello to the real real-time Web by tripzilch on Thursday May 17, 2012 @10:31AM (#3987126)
Your definition is correct, but Real-time can mean different things in different contexts.

For instance, I never hear anyone argue when a Demoscene production is called "real-time" (as they nearly always are), that it should in fact be called "soft real-time" (which is what they really are in the context you're talking about--framerates can drop).

So while you're technically correct (the best kind of correct), failing to acknowledge it's perfectly acceptable to use the term "real-time" in other contexts as well, is just going to make you pedantically correct (which is not a very good kind of correct).