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Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @06:42AM (#39776910)
> Cloud hosted instances are the primary business models for a lot of projects.

No one is entitled to their business models, no matter how noble their goals.

It's quite simple: if you believe in the ethos of Free Software, you need to be prepared to the possibility of other people taking your work, doing modifications and even profiting from it. That is the whole point.

If you don't want "evil corporations" from taking your code, then keep it closed and say it so. But don't be dishonest with others when you say that you "support open source" while not ready to walk the walk.

Re:Redis License Changed by thejohnconway on Thursday March 21, 2024 @07:24AM (#39777197)
People are struggling with what I think of as the pyrrhic victory of open source software. Vast swathes of computing is done with OSS, yet there is very little software freedom for actual people, because it’s all running in megacorps data centres with all the data locked away.

Essentially, the intention of copyleft to increase software freedom, which is the overall mission, has foundered. It is didn’t work and need revising.

Smaller companies are an ally of convenience here.

Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @07:45AM (#39777335)
No, the problem is that people conflating "free as in speech" with "free as in beer". Data is locked in megacorps because people are giving away their freedoms in exchange of convenience.

> the overall mission, has foundered.

Absolutely not. I've never had so much freedom on how to do computing.

Re:Redis License Changed by thejohnconway on Thursday March 21, 2024 @09:00AM (#39777979)
I don't think the intention of OSS was to make computing more free for a tiny elite who are will to live with quite a lot of inconvenience. Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly don't think the average computer user is more free in their software use than they were, say, 10 years ago. Or 20.
Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @09:28AM (#39778273)
1) The average user has a lot more choices of free systems to use. That they still prefer to lock themselves to a closed platform is not a failure of FOSS.

2) in the worst case analysis, FOSS trickle downs to people. Eg: WhatsApp could only have started if we had FOSS. It may have been colored by Facebook, but at the end of the day it was thanks to it that the "non-elite" managed to disrupt the telcos and offer messaging for free.

Re:Redis License Changed by thejohnconway on Thursday March 21, 2024 @01:09PM (#39781380)
It absolutely is a failure of FOSS. It was supposed to be viral, leading to greater software freedom for all. The strategy has been countered and subverted by running FOSS on servers people don’t control.

Half the world’s communication being under the control of one company with a dictator is hardly a success.

Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @02:20PM (#39782374)
Are we arguing over "freedom from" and "freedom to"?

I don't like that so many people preferred to go for a closed solution and I certainly don't like virtual monopolies, but people are there out of their own volition.

30 years ago, there was no real alternative for Windows on the desktop. All productivity tools were closed. Today, people buy iPhones and sign up to Instagram/TikTok because they want to.

What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest?

Re:Redis License Changed by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 21, 2024 @05:24PM (#39784583)
> 30 years ago

But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20."

> What would you propose, to have Stallman pointing a gun to everyone who didn't attend a install fest?

If I can propose wild things, then I'll propose that something forces big hosting companies to share their code.

And data freedom is an important issue that has a huge overlap with software freedom. I like the EU's movement toward forcing export and interoperability for big entities.

Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @05:56PM (#39784881)
> But they were comparing to "10 years ago. Or 20."

Linux only became a viable desktop around 2010.

Blender was open sourced in the early 2000.

StarOffice was a viable alternative to MS Office 2003.

Re:Redis License Changed by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 21, 2024 @06:08PM (#39785012)
Yes...?

The more things you list that are before the year(s) they used as reference points, the more you support their argument that software freedom peaked a while ago and has been going downhill in major ways in more recent years.

Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @06:53PM (#39785425)
My point is that I can continue with the timeline, and it will trend towards more freedom, not less:

- Google's original Android was more open than any of the alternatives. And even if Google went on the direction of closing Android and putting functionality around its Play Services, there are a good number of alternatives that build on Android and make it completely free. The number of devices that can run LineageOS/Murena/Linux is going up, not down.

- All social media was closed, and now we are seeing an explosion of open source projects. The number of people using it is going up, not down.

- Self-hosting software is easier than ever.

I fail to see any time interval where the availability of free software has been reduced. All it takes is a motivated individual.

Re:Redis License Changed by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 21, 2024 @05:26PM (#39784610)
> the problem is that people conflating "free as in speech" with "free as in beer"

Huh? Where?

I don't see how that confusion applies to the tradeoffs discussed here.

Re:Redis License Changed by rglullis on Thursday March 21, 2024 @05:46PM (#39784789)
Basically everyone who complains about proprietary/closed software and platforms and claims to "support" FOSS but never put their money where their mouths are.

Every company that pays through the nose for their cloud hosting, but does not allocate anything in their budget to support the downstream projects.

Every owner of a pricey Apple device who claims "they need something that just works" but never spared a few dollars per month to contribute to the development of free alternatives.

If a fraction of these people realized that quality free software takes money to be developed, and were willing to invest in it, the FOSS funding issue would be solved. The problem is, people are not willing to pay for R&D, they just want to pay for the finished product.

Re:Redis License Changed by Dylan16807 on Thursday March 21, 2024 @06:10PM (#39785032)
People not wanting to pay for things is a big problem in that way, yes.

But the problem is not because they're conflating it with "free as in speech". They're ignoring that aspect entirely.

Re:Redis License Changed by jen20 on Thursday March 21, 2024 @07:10AM (#39777116)
SSPL achieves your goal far better than AGPL, as already enumerated in this thread.