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Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by zinodaur on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:15PM (#39718153)
I used to roll my eyes at US military spending as well, but the last few years have honestly made me grateful for it
Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by the-chitmonger on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:20PM (#39718228)
Yep - plus it also helps that we have the Atlantic and a lot of Europe between us and a potential invasion.
Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by laidoffamazon on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:18PM (#39718197)
Absolutely. The world is better off because Putin is being resisted.

We (as the US) had a golden opportunity to reinvest our peace dividend after 1991 but we squandered it in a useless war for nearly 20 years after 9/11. But we have no choice but to reinvest in defense now.

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by whimsicalism on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:19PM (#39718214)
Why worth it to create democratic state in Ukraine but not in Iraq?

In both cases, the democracies created are flawed, but certainly more democratic than what came before.

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by Kon-Peki on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:38PM (#39718437)
Ukraine is a special case.

When the Soviet Union disintegrated, the Ukraine was left with the world’s 3rd largest nuclear weapons arsenal. They gave up every single one of them in exchange for a promise from the western world to help them defend themselves from aggression.

If we don’t live up to that promise, how can we ever hope to limit nuclear weapons proliferation anywhere else?

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by whimsicalism on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:41PM (#39718480)
Ukraine did not have the codes to operate the weapons it gave up - so this was essentially costless.

Moreso, most people did not consider Ukraine a true democracy in the 90s thru to Euromaidan

Nonetheless I do think the non-proliferation argument is a good one for distinguishing the two cases, thanks.

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by philipkglass on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:59PM (#39718719)
There were 1,240 Soviet nuclear warheads stationed on Ukrainian territory when it gained independence in 1991 [1]. At the very least, these weapons could have been salvaged for their fissile materials (highly enriched uranium and weapons grade plutonium).

Obtaining such fissile materials is about 90% of the effort of building nuclear weapons, and preventing the acquisition of them is about 90% of anti-proliferation efforts. I think that Ukraine could have easily deployed a nuclear deterrent in the 2010s if they had warehoused all those Soviet warheads in the 1990s.

[1] https://www.nti.org/countries/ukraine/

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by Kon-Peki on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:57PM (#39718701)
Had Ukraine kept them they probably would have eventually gained control.

And we don’t have a legal obligation to their security, only a promise. But that makes what we are doing even more powerful, IMO

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by stouset on Friday March 15, 2024 @07:36PM (#39721803)
> Ukraine did not have the codes to operate the weapons it gave up - so this was essentially costless.

This analysis seems a little thin.

The codes to operate those weapons only really control the detonation sequence. At the end of the day, making new detonators from existing bombs is much less hard than collecting the fissile materials needed and assembling bombs from scratch.

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by kiba on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:24PM (#39718265)
The loss of goodwill and fatigue limits our actions for more necessary circumstances.

Perhaps Iraq wouldn't be a democracy, but our support of Ukraine would be more full-throated, and maybe our political circumstance would be better off.

Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by whimsicalism on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:26PM (#39718288)
Trading democracy for the 43 million people in Iraq for more full-throated support for the 45 million people of Ukraine seems like a bad trade given our current level of support is still preserving democracy in Ukraine.
Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by laidoffamazon on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:21PM (#39718241)
Ukraine is already a democratic state, Iraq was never a democratic state.
Re:U.S. transferred a record $80.9B worth of military equipm... by whimsicalism on Friday March 15, 2024 @01:24PM (#39718266)
Iraq is a democratic state now and arguably has been one for longer than Ukraine. Ukraine has only recently become a democratic state (last 15 years) and still has issues.