News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by FuzzyDunlop on Sunday May 13, 2012 @08:27AM (#3966817)
"44,845 transfers" were 'successfully stopped', according to this article, at a cost of anywhere between $12-50k.

Assuming $50k, that would put it at a cost of approx $1.10 per 'stopped' transfer. With the caveat that they've no idea if the 'stopped' transfers just resumed later on. That seems like wasted money.

Now, it'd be interesting to see what they could do to get nearly fifty thousand extra sales at a similar or proportionate expense.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by dbcoops on Sunday May 13, 2012 @09:09AM (#3966887)
This is what I don't understand about the anti-piracy interest group. Piracy is simply competition. These prevention tactics tell me, the consumer, that this company believes it cannot compete on any level with the ease and availability of pirating content. If they stop all pirating everywhere, will it force me to buy content through their (less than amazing services)? Maybe a little. Is it possible to stop all pirating everywhere? I doubt it.

In other words, where is the "piracy killer" service that is so awesome, I give someone my money and stop pirating? Hulu? Load of crap. Netflix? It's okay, I guess. Steam? Ok, so there's one.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by citricsquid on Sunday May 13, 2012 @09:26AM (#3966932)
> These prevention tactics tell me, the consumer, that this company believes it cannot compete on any level with the ease and availability of pirating content

of course they can't! Piracy has one major value to people that engage in piracy: it allows people to acquire content without abiding by the acquisition policy set out by the content distributors. It's "competition" in the same way that it's "competition" when 1 athlete in an Olympic running event is taking steroids and has jet boots on. You can't treat piracy as fair competition.

Most people don't pirate out of a "It's too difficult for me to buy this song via itunes", they pirate because they don't want to spend money. Content distributors can't compete with that, even with services like Netflix and Hulu people still pirate because they don't like adverts. If they are unwilling to pay and unwilling to view adverts what other options are there besides just giving away content for free? People that pirate (in general) want content without compromising on the way they want it, while piracy exists these people will continue to pirate.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by hxa7241 on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:14AM (#3967195)
'Fair'? That seems an invalid concept here. What is 'fairness', assuming a strict copyright system? -- it is a race with the qualifying runner, but where no others are allowed to run! That is a strange notion of fairness.

But 'fairness' is just a diversion: these copyright trade monopolies are supposed to prevent competition (of distribution), that is their point. That is how they increase one kind of revenue and so supposedly increase production.

When non rights-holders are copying/distributing it is competition de facto -- according only to the basic rules of physics. And it can therefore be an important signal: because what is basically physically possible is what the economy should really be aiming for. If people can distribute informational goods themselves better than the authorised channels, those channels are clearly underachieving according to the real baseline measure.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by citricsquid on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:25AM (#3967218)
Fair is when the people that own content control that content. It's not a difficult concept.
Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by slowpoke on Sunday May 13, 2012 @02:05PM (#3967714)
How so? I would see it as a lot fairer if we'd all follow a liberal approach:

    I can't force you to give me things.
    But neither can you stop me from sharing them.
I completely reject the illogical, nonsensical crazy idea that you can own virtual, abstract things. It's impossible by their very definition.

Die Gedanken sind frei.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by vibrunazo on Sunday May 13, 2012 @02:46PM (#3967857)
"Your right ends where another's right begins."

It's 'fair' for you to have control over your content, as much as it's 'fair' for me to have control over how I can share, remix and improve and the content I bought.

When your right conflicts with my right, then I don't it's fair for you to make it illegal for me to improve and share the content created by your grandparent 90 years ago.

Short version, the world is not as simply black or white as you'd like to believe.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by guard-of-terra on Sunday May 13, 2012 @10:36AM (#3967093)
"Most people don't pirate out of a "It's too difficult for me to buy this song via itunes", they pirate because they don't want to spend money"

Therefore, ad-supported streaming services exist.

The only reason why ad-supported streaming services aren't the king is because they can't stream every content. That lands us back on availability problem. Copyright holders can not figure it out.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by citricsquid on Sunday May 13, 2012 @10:47AM (#3967125)
That's a nice cutesy view, but it's wrong. Lots of people refuse to use advert supported streaming services because they don't want to stream and they hate adverts. Content owners can't win. Just check reddit sometime, it's depressing how demanding people are.
Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by AnthonyMouse on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:09AM (#3967176)
Nobody is saying that there is one true model and all the others are wrong. That's kind of the point actually -- people turn to piracy for all different reasons. Some because they don't want to pay (so offer ad supported streaming), some because they don't like unskippable ads (so offer pay-to-download services with no ads), some because of availability (so make sure everything is available on both the ad supported streaming and pay-to-download services), etc.

Complaining that customers are demanding is just sour grapes. Customers are always demanding; welcome to capitalism. You either provide what the market wants, or somebody else does.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by citricsquid on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:22AM (#3967211)
> Complaining that customers are demanding is just sour grapes. Customers are always demanding; welcome to capitalism. You either provide what the market wants, or somebody else does.

That's the entire damn problem with piracy. Nobody else is providing them with "what the market wants", someone else is TAKING another businesses product and then distributing it themselves.

I mean sure, if people wanted to watch the latest episode of Game of Thrones but couldn't because it wasn't available to them (or they were unhappy with the terms) and someone else then said "I have a series like Game of Thrones and it's free!" THAT would be "somebody else" providing what the market want, but it isn't.

comparing physical and digital products is never 100% accurate, so forgive me for this, but if a Ferrari dealership charges $100,000 for a car and someone steals one and offers it for free, that isn't "someone else providing what the market wants", it isn't capitalism... it's someone stealing.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by AnthonyMouse on Sunday May 13, 2012 @01:02PM (#3967495)
>I mean sure, if people wanted to watch the latest episode of Game of Thrones but couldn't because it wasn't available to them (or they were unhappy with the terms) and someone else then said "I have a series like Game of Thrones and it's free!" THAT would be "somebody else" providing what the market want, but it isn't.

Here's what I'm saying: If HBO is offering Game of Thrones on HBO.com to anyone willing to pay $10 (or whatever) for it, and The Pirate Bay is offering it for $0, probably some people are still going to go to The Pirate Bay and get it for $0 instead of paying $10 for it. And that sucks; it would be nice if we could wave a magic wand and make it stop without impacting millions of innocent people, but we can't.

However, if you go to HBO.com and there is no reasonable way for you to insert cash and watch video, far more people are going to end up at The Pirate Bay than would if the show was available on the official website. And that is something we can easily do something about. So isn't it better to adopt the solutions that actually reduce the problem than to sit around complaining how unfair it is while unnecessarily losing a bunch of would-be customers?

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by guard-of-terra on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:53AM (#3967300)
But what if someone buys a Ferrari for 80,000$ in another country, drives it thru the border and sells it to you for 90,000$? You know, they (official distributor of Ferrari) consider it piracy too, and they sue that guy for trademark infringement.

Therefore, we are not going to buy your argument.

What if you want some product from USA, and you live on one of countries USA chooses to BULLY for no apparent reason (think Cuba), and you buy the product somewhere and smuggle it home? Is it morally wrong? I will say it isn't.

Therefore, we are not going to buy your argument.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by citricsquid on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:59AM (#3967317)
You're missing the entire point of the Ferrari argument. If you bought a Ferrari and the agreement with your purchase said "You must not resell this car" then morally you would be wrong re-selling it, because you were told not to. If you don't agree with the clause that says you can't resell it then you shouldn't buy it.
Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by slowpoke on Sunday May 13, 2012 @02:21PM (#3967774)
Please tell me you are joking.

The law is not a moral authority, and attempting to presenting it as such is one of the most disingenuous fallacies in existence.

Something is never wrong because it's against the law. Ideally, something is against the law because it is wrong, but that's not always the case.

When I buy a physical good, such as a Ferrari, there's nobody who can tell me what the fuck I can do with it. For all the seller cares I could drive it repeatedly against the nearest wall, then set it on fire. Same goes for selling it. I do not see myself obliged to answer to any authority on what I can do with my property.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by guard-of-terra on Sunday May 13, 2012 @12:08PM (#3967343)
The basic law says I can sell a property of mine; and it says it is illegal to sell me things while demanding to not to resell those.

The problem is, copyright law says I have no rights and copyright holders have any rights they want to impose over me. Sorry guys, it's not a good offer.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by FuzzyDunlop on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:44AM (#3967275)
Content owners may not be able to 'win' against piracy, as there's no way it can be feasibly eradicated, but it's not at all impossible to at least try and lessen the impact of it on the business.

Such ingenuity is incompatible with the entrenched industry's old-school way of thinking, though. They want it their way, how it's always been.

The consumer is moving at a much faster pace, willing to consume content in different and often more convenient ways. They use the internet, which is global, and want to consume content that is still arbitrarily restricted to national boundaries. This is a demand that has yet to be legitimately satisfied, and thus naturally, the consumer becomes demanding.

Unfortunately, the industry is determined to defend itself from a changing world, instead of embracing it. DRM, unskippable piracy warnings, local content restrictions, etc. are all manifestations of such a practice, and all of which actively punish the legitimate customer.

The internet, and everything it has enabled, is still pretty new. In some ways, this resistance to change isn't surprising, and it's easy to be a commentator on the sidelines. It'd be better to reflect on it with the benefit of hindsight.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by guard-of-terra on Sunday May 13, 2012 @11:09AM (#3967180)
If they hate adverts they would not use common bittorrent sites because they are ridden with terrible, annoying ads. Pirates are ad supported too!

Streaming is what people actually want half of the time. It's convenient. But the whole talk is baseless as long as streaming services can't make the same offering pirates do.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by fromhet on Sunday May 13, 2012 @09:25AM (#3966930)
Well, noone who wants to be paid for their work can compete against piracy.
Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by ewillbefull on Sunday May 13, 2012 @10:30AM (#3967080)
That's just not true. People who want to be paid for their work need to let go of the idea of selling copies and embrace the idea of servicing their media to the public. Every amount of friction between the consumer and the content is at play -- quality, morality, reliability, legality, and so on.

Region locking your content, pumping it with unskippable ads and legal threats, releasing it arbitrarily in certain countries... are all practices which serve to alienate the consumer. These are pervasive in the content industry, and you couldn't honestly say they're even trying to compete with piracy with such stubbornness.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by soup10 on Sunday May 13, 2012 @10:52AM (#3967134)
The idea that you should "compete" with pirates is absurd logic that is a product cognitive dissonance. I'm all for improving the quality of service that companies provide, but at the end of the day content is content, and must be paid for by consumers or advertisers or you would see a _drastic_ drop in the quantity and quality of content produced.

If you defend a site like the pirate bay's right to enable the distribution of pirate content, then you are also defending their right to upgrade their service and make it just as good as Steam or Netflix or whatever... all things being equal, you can't compete with free.(the content industry understands this which is why they fight for measures that make piracy less convenient and constantly reminds you that piracy is "wrong".).

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by ewillbefull on Sunday May 13, 2012 @12:09PM (#3967345)
Competing with piracy is not exclusively about providing a cheaper service, but about providing a more valuable service. I don't understand why you think competing with piracy would be some tacit approval of commercial exploitation of piracy -- which is where the law should draw the line (for as long as practical). This hole in your logic underlies your entire retort.

For instance:

> but at the end of the day content is content, and must be paid for by consumers or advertisers or you would see a _drastic_ drop in the quantity and quality of content produced.

Why do you assume providing a better service to your customers means handing out content for free? If pirates can provide a better service for free, why are you providing a worse service at all? If anything, you should be giving people their money's worth or better. This is my point: they are doing _nothing_ to drive customers away from piracy. I'm not even talking about lowering costs.

In light of this, I found it hilarious for you to say:

> (the content industry understands this which is why they fight for measures that make piracy less convenient and constantly reminds you that piracy is "wrong".).

It is interesting that in your list of content industry "responses" you forgot to mention the things they do to make legitimately purchasing/enjoying their content less convenient. On the contrary, they have done little to make piracy less convenient. We're talking about stuff that has no effect on their profit margins or business model, that they do anyway.

In that sense and context is where we state "compete", so no, it is not born out of cognitive dissonance. Replace that with desperation and you might be closer. In the end, competing with piracy as a service is only part of the battle. Alternative models for subsidizing content production will have to be embraced eventually, but I'll leave those discussions for a rainy day.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by soup10 on Sunday May 13, 2012 @02:08PM (#3967725)
I think "competing with piracy" is pretty stupid phrase that legitimizes piracy. I could care less if people pirate(for whatever reason), but they shouldn't pretend that it's ethical. Or that trying to curb piracy is a bad thing.

The big content industry maximizes profit, not consumer surplus. When the profit equation changes, you better believe their practices will change. Is it ethical to maximize profit? Probably not, but that doesn't make piracy OK either. The vast majority of the things they do are mildly annoying at best.

Truthfully it's not the piracy that bothers me, just the hypocrisy/cognitive dissonance that I see all the time when piracy is discussed online. You want to pirate photoshop? Go ahead, nobody cares, don't pretend that adobe has greatly wronged you so it's only fair that you use photoshop for free though.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by ewillbefull on Sunday May 13, 2012 @02:45PM (#3967851)
"Competing with piracy" is not a phrase that legitimizes it, it's one that acknowledges it (and the technological changes that surround it). Looking at it through cynical eyes is not very constructive.

I don't think I've ever heard it said before Gabe Newell either, and he stands to lose a lot from piracy and not much to gain pandering to entitled brats.

Re:Microsoft Funded Startup Aims to Kill BitTorrent Traffic by guard-of-terra on Sunday May 13, 2012 @12:03PM (#3967328)
What if we acknowledge this point but aren't afraid of consequences? Music quality fell sharp before the internet piracy; TV series quality stand high; movies are mixed bag but you have more luck with non-mainstream. I don't see how it would all suddently collapse and I'm willing to risk.