News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by KeplerBoy on Sunday March 10, 2024 @11:34AM (#39659993)
Sure, no one actually cares about the graphics part anymore in these contexts. Many Nvidia Datacenter GPUs are also no longer GPUs in that sense.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by mise_en_place on Sunday March 10, 2024 @02:04PM (#39661139)
Yep just need to load the model. It can and probably should be headless.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by bee_rider on Sunday March 10, 2024 @05:22PM (#39662629)
I know it isn’t the what you mean, but as an aside (rather than a contradiction), the gaming marked is still much bigger than the ML model training one, right? So presumably people care about the graphics part in the sense that development there funds the development of the cards, haha.

I always assumed that was what killed Xeon Phi. Hard to justify a GEMM card in and of itself. However clever you get, NVIDIA will be back next year with twice as much bandwidth.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by SonOfLilit on Sunday March 10, 2024 @05:48PM (#39662783)
According to my googling, data center has been bigger than gaming for nvidia since 2022, and almost x2 in Q2 2023 following a crazy nosedive in gaming sales.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by bee_rider on Sunday March 10, 2024 @06:26PM (#39663013)
Woah, that’s really something
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by FridgeSeal on Sunday March 10, 2024 @08:42PM (#39663738)
Nvidia burnt quite a lot of goodwill with the 40xx series cards and pricing.

Melting connectors, obscene pricing, marginal performance increase, zero availability; then when hardly any of that was addressed, Ti versions release which are equally expensive, and equally lacklustre. Combine that with patchy support for frame generation and 30xx series cards still going really strong, and you’ve got not a lot of incentive to upgrade.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by weebull on Monday March 11, 2024 @08:42AM (#39667468)
In dollars, for sure.

In units sold?

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by bee_rider on Monday March 11, 2024 @01:06PM (#39670744)
I think dollars was the right figure to defeat my point. My thought was that they would be impossible for their more datacenter type competition to beat, because their R&D budget came from a much larger gaming segment. But, if they are around the same size, or the data center type users actually pay more, it is a level playing field.

I’m sure they don’t mind having both revenue streams of course! But on the other hand, they have to serve two sets of interests.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by KeplerBoy on Sunday March 10, 2024 @05:37PM (#39662720)
No, datacenter GPU revenue has surpassed gaming revenue some time ago. At least for Nvidia and I fully expect this trend to continue.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by krapht on Sunday March 10, 2024 @08:27PM (#39663643)
I'll bet against that. NVIDIA's margin is so large that Google/Microsoft and others can fund / are funding large teams to make TPUs and other dedicated hardware competitive. I also believe LLMs are part of the hype cycle just like crypto. In ten years the gaming market will return to being NVIDIA's primary market.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by hnfong on Sunday March 10, 2024 @10:50PM (#39664504)
A couple factors to consider:

1. The hardware isn't nVidia's primary moat. CUDA is. Currently all machine learning tooling assumes you have a CUDA device.

2. The hype cycle may be real, but nobody really knows how much better AI will become. The uncertainty is driving the hype (which is obviously on the optimistic side), but it could well be that models become so good that everyone "needs" an AI chip like how we "need" a smartphone today.

3. The gaming/graphics market is probably going to slowly shrink. There's only so many pixels you can push to the eye. There's very real diminishing returns there. At some point people literally won't be able to tell the difference between the newer/better/faster graphics and the older generation, at which point the GPU vendor's margins drop significantly.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by weebull on Monday March 11, 2024 @08:46AM (#39667508)
> 1. The hardware isn't nVidia's primary moat. CUDA is.

People really don't appreciate this. So many times I see people comment that AMD should implement CUDA and not try to get software to move standard.

AMD have a massive task ahead because they NEED to get CUDA unseated just to play on a level playing ground, let alone win.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by CuriouslyC on Sunday March 10, 2024 @10:35PM (#39664410)
If by "LLMs are part of the hype cycle" you mean "people are hyping them more than their current capabilities entirely warrant" maybe. If you mean "LLMs are a hype technology that is going to peter out without leaving a major impact on society" as kindly as I can phrase it, what on earth are you smoking, or are you Amish?
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by hnfong on Sunday March 10, 2024 @10:51PM (#39664512)
To be fair, GP compared the LLM hype with crypto... And as niche crypto may be in the future, I don't think it will also "peter out without leaving a major impact on society"...
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by KetoManx64 on Monday March 11, 2024 @12:17AM (#39664882)
Crypto will not be niche in the future. Bitcoin has a market cap of 1,349,125,982,176 (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/) and recently surpassed the market cap of gold itself and has large investors from Black Rock to Apple, ans recently got approved for ETFs which means the general population's 401k's will have bitcoin in them starting this year. Other crypto currencies may die out, but bitcoin is here permanantly.

If you haven't yet, buy some bitcoin and stop letting the government steal your hard earned money through inflation.

Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by gleenn on Sunday March 10, 2024 @06:26PM (#39663019)
Many of them don't even have video out ports, they are purely for the compute power.
Re:Tenstorrent unveils Grayskull, its RISC-V answer to GPUs by weebull on Monday March 11, 2024 @08:47AM (#39667521)
The hardware is still on the chip.