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Re: by GordonS on Thursday March 07, 2024 @07:11AM (#39628095)
Sure: https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.ta.... This is a very interesting poll, and it clearly shows that Arabs want peace, while Israeli Jews do not.

In reference to the same poll: "A vast majority of Jewish Israelis believe that the IDF is using an appropriate amount or not enough force" [0]. "Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepower” in Gaza" [1]

[0] https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-783849

[1] https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-is...

Re: by gryzzly on Thursday March 07, 2024 @07:23AM (#39628194)
Thank you for providing the links!

Which part exactly confirms your lovely put words "large proportion of Israelis think of Palestinians as sub-human bugs to be crushed"?

Re: by gryzzly on Thursday March 07, 2024 @07:24AM (#39628206)
did the rocket fire stop and were the hostages released? no! that’s what is behind "too little firepower", that and the fact over 500 Israeli soldiers were killed by Hamas in Gaza so far.
Re: by GordonS on Thursday March 07, 2024 @07:28AM (#39628238)
> that and the fact over 500 Israeli soldiers were killed by Hamas in Gaza so far

Israel are the occupying, attacking force, and have massacred thousands of civilians. You want me to care about war criminals, who routinely broadcast their depraved attrocities on TikTok? Come on now.

Re: by gryzzly on Thursday March 07, 2024 @07:54AM (#39628479)
Israel is defending itself and Hamas has massacred civilians. Please don’t invert the situation.

I don’t want you to care about anything, you clearly are a jew hater and your persona doesn’t interest me. What I want is for everyone to see that your demonising of Israeli public with words like "want to crush Palestinians like bugs" has no basis in reality.

Re: by YavuzKrgl on Thursday March 07, 2024 @09:31AM (#39629506)
Israel is not defending itself. They are actively murdering civilians to the point you can claim it as genocide. [0] Hamas did not killed those civilians it was Israel who killed them.[1] Israel dehumanized Palestinians[2][3]. He is not a Jew hater, you are accusing him of something he is not and trying to deny the reality of the atrocities committed by Israel. As for all Jews, yes, they are all the same. If the Jews didn't have someone at the head of the Jews who was dedicated to building Solomon's temple by committing this atrocity, the Jews wouldn't have the courage to act.

[0] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-ham...

[1] https://www.liberationnews.org/evidence-shows-israel-killed-...

[2] https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/17117377126238824...

[3] https://www.liberationnews.org/israel-calls-palestinians-hum...

Re: by incognos on Thursday March 07, 2024 @12:01PM (#39631340)
You cannot defend yourself in a territory that you occupy... no such right exists under international law.
Re: by gryzzly on Thursday March 07, 2024 @12:43PM (#39632022)
7 of October has happened on Israeli territory and rockets are shot at Israeli territory indiscriminately. The army is protecting its citizens and is attempting to rescue the hostages. Adding the words “international law” doesnt make it work in a specific way you like.
Re: by nsguy on Friday March 08, 2024 @05:51PM (#39647473)
I think most Israelis do not believe peace is possible with the Palestinians. This is a result of the suicide bombing campaign that followed the Oslo peace process.

But I don't think your survey shows what you're saying it shows. I've no doubt that more Israeli Jews want peace than Arabs. Find me a survey that asks this question to both population, do you prefer peace or a war. I have no doubt what the answer would be. You can see this in the public discourse, the Palestinian population supports "resistance" which is war. you won't find much Israeli discourse about initiating violence against the Palestinian population pre Oct 7th. See this: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/new-poll-shows-palestinians...

Palestinians could have peace at any time. On Israeli terms. They can have their freedom, their humans rights. What they can't have is the land they demand, the right of return, and the eviction of the state of Israel.

In terms of Gaza, it's not surprising Israelis are disappointed with the progress in the war. It's been 5 months and Gaza hasn't been completely retaken and Hamas has not been defeated as a military. Again I don't think this actually supports your point of view at all or necessarily paints Israelis in a bad light. If Hamas hadn't attacked on Oct 7th we wouldn't be having this discussion. Since they have Israel is using all its might to destroy them and yes there are severe consequences to the Gazans. Israel is somewhat in the middle in terms of the usage of force in this situation vs. what most of the world considers to be normal. The Russians e.g. would undoubtedly apply a lot more force. Even most of the western world would and has.

Re: by GordonS on Friday March 08, 2024 @06:15PM (#39647693)
> Israel is somewhat in the middle in terms of the usage of force in this situation vs. what most of the world considers to be normal

If we're being honest, I think that perception (such that it may exist) largely depends upon the race of the subject states. Consider the recent bomb blast on Iran, attributed to Israel - if Iran responded in the same manner as Israel did after Oct 7th, our govs would be denouncing them as evil incarnate!

In any case, I really think - really hope - that's not true; surely most civilians don't think forced starvation, massacres of children, torture etc are "OK". If so, there is no hope for humanity.

And bear in mind this is not "just" about Gaza - many more people now know about Israel's illegal and dehumanising actions towards Palestinians, whipping up Islamophobia, and general land-theft and terrorism throughout the region. And we do not understand how this is allowed to happen in our name, supported by our governments.

> Even most of the western world would and has.

In the past, yes. And in times gone by, civilians were kept informed of global events by newspapers and TV news. Now, we are basically seeing a genocide, land-grab and oil-grab unfold right before our very eyes, from the normal, everyday people who are affected - people who now don't seem so different to us, people just like us.

Re: by nsguy on Friday March 08, 2024 @06:43PM (#39647906)
What recent bomb blast on Iran? You're not seriously comparing slaughtering and raping party goers (to say the least), abducting woman, babies and elderly, to a clandestine operation against some infrastructure. Iran says it wants to destroy Israel (and why?) and acts towards it. Israel is allowed to counteract that.

If Israel raided Iran, raped Iranian woman, beheaded random Iranian citizens, abducted Iranian children and elderly, Iran would absolutely be justified to start a war with Israel. Many Iranians are strong supporters of Israel in this conflict by the way. In a war you do anything possible, these days within international law, to defeat your enemy and I'd fully expect Iran to try that under those circumstances.

You're insisting Israel is the bad side here. I'm going to respectfully disagree. There is no comparison between the moral positions of Israel and Hamas.

We're seeing war. The use of the word genocide in the context of this war is propaganda and is eroding the meaning of that word.

EDIT: It's also important to consider that Iran is already waging a proxy war on Israel. A war with no justification.