Are you saying this war has a higher civilian casualty ratio that other wars? Sadly history shows that civilians have been casualties of war at high rates compared to combatants.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

That article suggests the average ratio to be 1:1, so yes this war has a higher ratio.

The US defined combatant in their latest wars as any male killed over the age of 14, so the ratio is a bit up to how people choose to define combatant vs civilian.

The wikipedia article should be read as a starting point in understanding how extremely unreliable those numbers are, and how much it depend on how people define combatant and civilian.

Israel estimated 12,000 Hamas at a time when Hamas figures claimed 26,000 dead. That's pretty close to 1:1.

Part of the trouble is Israel can't prove the 12,000, and no one actually believes the Hamas figures are legitimate. But there are not better figures available for either number. So 1:1 for Gaza is the best we can estimate.

The article also gives examples of many major wars, with the majority of examples have numbers of civilians killed usually greater than combatants.

So, as horrific as this war has been, I don't think the claim that this is "one of the the deadliest wars for civilians in general" holds up.

I don't think they said that it was the highest, they just said "one of." From that list, 2:1 or 3:1 is certainly quite deadly.

The original post made it sound unusual that civilians are dying in such high numbers. It is unfortunately not unusual that civilians die at higher numbers than combatants during war, the opposite is often true.

> This has also been one of the deadliest wars for civilians in general.

I don't think that is a true statement. Obviously it is bad for civilians in any war, but there are other conficts that have been much worse.

> This has also been one of the deadliest wars for civilians in general.

That's not actually true. The ratio is similar to other wars. Civilians die in war, they die a lot. War sucks. But Gaza is not unusually deadly compared to other wars.

Compare it to the Russia/Ukraine war. Not even close.

In any case Israel is not conducting a war, they are conducting a massacre.

The double standards are pretty breath-taking - Russia's conduct in Ukraine was labelled a genocide, but Israel's conduct is comparatively white-washed.

While the initial cause for war is obviously different, that does not justify war crimes.

I don't think western-brained folks realise how bad this looks to the rest of the world. For example to India, and the amount damage it does to the West's reputation.

>Russia's conduct in Ukraine was labelled a genocide

Because the Russian government took Ukrainian children to raise as Russians, something without parallel in I/P.

>For example to India

Which has been unusually supportive of Israel this time.

>, and the amount damage it does to the West's reputation.

Weirdly, quiet a few of the nations making this critique were notably cool on Ukraine. Since that war predates Gaza by almost two years, either they had clairvoyance or the hypocrisy is in the other direction.

> Because the Russian government took Ukrainian children to raise as Russians, something without parallel in I/P.

I cannot find any reference to this as a reasoning for declaring genocide. 6 countries made a declaration, and all allegations centre around rampant killing of civilians. That's the main benchmark.

> Weirdly, quiet a few of the nations making this critique were notably cool on Ukraine..hypocrisy is in the other direction.

Without googling, can you tell how many armed conflicts are going on in Africa right now?

There is horrible civil war in Sudan and nobody in the west cares. Neighbouring countries have inflows of refugees, etc. So you are perfect example of western-brain, expecting everyone in the world to have same priorities as you do.

Meanwhile we can't even hold our own companies to account, they bypass sanctions through Kazakhstan and other ex-USSR states, and none of the executives are in jail.

>I cannot find any reference to this as a reasoning for declaring genocide. 6 countries made a declaration, and all allegations centre around rampant killing of civilians. That's the main benchmark.

I haven't checked the PR statements, but the arrest warrant regarding the children includes the genocide charge[0], that's where the actual legal action centres, not around 'rampant killing'.

It's based on article 2(e) of the genocide convention: "Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."[1]. Also, Russia is doing it publicly so it's easy to prove.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/17/vladimir-putin...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention#cite_ref-C...

>Without googling, can you tell how many armed conflicts are going on in Africa right now?

Without googling: I know of Sudan, Congo, the Mali / subsaharan Jihadi mess (they've been sieging Timbuktu for months now?), Somalia (recently also Somaliland area) and Ethiopia (civil war with TPLF reduced, but Oromo still going on). Northern Nigeria always has something bad going on.

Nonsense. What you mean is that you're with their enemies and want them to lose.

Russia/Ukraine is not an urban war, why would I compare it to that?

> In any case Israel is not conducting a war, they are conducting a massacre.

And your are basing this on what? Just your own imagination? The actual facts show a war, like all other wars. Well not like all others, this one has Jews in it, so it gets extra attention.

> Well not like all others, this one has Jews in it, so it gets extra attention.

What's that supposed to mean?

Well, let's quiz you then: What country currently has millions of people are risk of starving to death due to war?

I'll give you more clues: it's also one of the largest mass displacements of people due to war in current times, with plenty of rape and ethnic cleansing.

I will of course want to see how many comments you've posted about the topic, and how many HN submissions. Since obviously this war is many times larger than Gaza, so should command a much larger portion of your attention.

Ah I see, the common whataboutism combined with a little bit of antisemitism accusations. Good one.

That's not whataboutism, the issue at hand is that no one cares about conflicts unless Jews are involved, and I just proved that to you. Whataboutism would be for you to reply to me, I was the one who started the statement.

And you seem incredibly obsessed with this conflict - but no others.

> Also when you’re using such a loose definition of journalist obviously the deaths would be greater.

If we were using a more strict definition of journalism (let's say, published on NYT), the deaths would be even greater. Perhaps in the tens of thousands. /s