I've also had the pleasure of maintaining an Elm codebase. It was filled to the brim with state update bugs. You could never trust what you saw in your browser. Nobody in the team understood how the codebase worked. I spent days implementing some extremely simple changes, which barely worked (to the same standard as the rest of the codebase). Never again.

I don't blame a Rust-codebase for being bad just because I don't know Rust.

So, your positive anecdote was somehow valuable for the discussion, but my negative anecdote had absolutely no value? That's how anecdotes work?

My positive anecdote proved that Elm is usable in production, which was the FUD I was refuting. Yours were irrelevant in that context.

It is impossible if you're being responsible. You don't choose a technology that could potentially block you from solving problems in the future unless it brings a huge value to you.

Elm's value proposition is mostly being a functional language with an opinionated MVU library baked in, so you can reproduce that value with a better functional language and selecting a similar MVU library in that other language, which means it should never actually cross the value bar above the risk it brings if you need a browser feature it doesn't support and actively prevents you from accessing.

Now you're moving the goalpost. You said it was impossible to use in production. Which is clearly wrong.

I am just clarifying why I consider it impossible.

Production is not some place you're supposed to cowboy code, but instead have a reasonable expectation that you will be able to continue supporting it for as many years as it operates, and it's impossible for anyone to responsibly use technology with known limitations that have bitten other real engineering teams that they can find zero workarounds for.

If you don't consider that an impossibility for a production environment, then I certainly wouldn't want to work with you on a team with production responsibilities.

Ah, ad hominem. By not agreeing with you, you're basically saying I suck as a dev. Classy.

If that's the level of discussion you want, I'll pass. And perhaps you should reflect on if you yourself is a great team member, if this is how you conduct technical discussions with your colleagues..

You keep throwing out debate terminology as if that's helping your argument.

You'll note that I didn't get immediately riled up on you calling my original post "FUD" instead of asking why I said what I said. And then when I tried to clarify to you how I consider usage of Elm in production impossible, you again attack me directly instead of trying to discuss anything.

So, perhaps you should reflect if you're a great team member if you consider your opening statement to me to be a "technical discussion" at all? I was just trying to respond reasonably for third parties who are reading this, because I consider you a troll.

You throw out wildly inaccurate statements, and then consider people that push back trolls? I clearly hit a nerve. You lashing out isn't "responding reasonable".

Zero workarounds seems overly dramatic, here are a few: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39567011

If you want to rely on them for every possible future requirement or rather want to pick another tool is another question :D

Anyways, just building the compiler without that check was also not that hard.

I've seen the word FUD 4 times on this page already. The "elm defense force" sounds a lot like cryptobros defending their rug pull. It's such an odd piece of language to adopt over people not liking some javascript compiler for perfectly valid reasons.

Funny that you have this impression.

To me it looks more like the elm-haters are out in force and the Elm users don't participate anymore on this site.

Many hateful comments here below a historic post prompted me to create a new account after a detox phase of >10 years.

So far I try to correct a false statement in the (as of writing this) top comment [1] or add a more neutral view [2]. And maybe I will add more of my personal opinion in the future - or participate in other interesting topics depending on my mood.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39555542 [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39556395