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Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by ethbr1 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @11:16AM (#39525831)
> The ones to blame isn’t the worker, the union or the state. It’s your business that has key deficiencies in implementing safety.

I don't think you're charitably reading parent.

Sometimes, the employee is the problem. And sometimes, union contracts preclude changing processes (or make change unnecessarily burdensome) to improve outcomes.

Introducing another party into agreements doesn't come free.

I'm as pro-union as anyone around here... but it is another level of bureaucracy. And sometimes, protecting "our people" can include not letting go people who should be let go (e.g. decreasing headcount in assembly to hire more professional QA people).

That said, solutions do need to come from all levels, and I think unions do provide a necessary counter-pressure to management deciding only employees need to bear the brunt of change.

Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by shagie on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @11:24AM (#39525942)
> where certain difficult to fire union parasites have a stranglehold

> where such fatally negligent parasitic workers can be easily shit canned

How charitable of a read does one need to give a comment that uses pejorative and hyperbolic language without providing any substantive refutation?

Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by ethbr1 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @01:05PM (#39527291)
Forums improve through ignoring hyperbolic language, not responding to it.
Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by acdha on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @02:45PM (#39528761)
Forums improve by rejecting rude and deceptive language - as Gen. Morrison said, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by ethbr1 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @04:11PM (#39530031)
Agree to disagree. IMHO, there are more people who thrive on internet conflict than thrive on being ignored.

It takes self control, but walking past the problem is sometimes the more effective solution.

"Man, that asshole on the Internet disagreed with me. I'm going to write a detailed rebuttal of why they're the asshole."

vs.

"Hunh, I wonder why I occasionally get down voted and no one ever responds to me? And also, the responses I do get are a lot nicer in tone than mine..."

Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by acdha on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @04:56PM (#39530641)
You’re right that there is a challenge about giving attention when that’s what they’re seeking. I generally prefer either flagging (worse cases) or up-voting the one person who left a “dude, not cool” reply so they get clear community feedback.
Re:Boeing missing key elements of safety culture: FAA report by zettabomb on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @11:30AM (#39526027)
Perhaps the worker is at fault, but in (good) aerospace companies one person's mistake cannot lead to a bad unit going out the door. At the very least, two people need to be wrong in the same way - but more likely, several people would need to miss the problem.

That being said, "operator error" as a reason for a problem is heavily discouraged (at least in official reports). Rather, it's typical to blame a human factors issue, commonly one of the "dirty dozen" [0]. I couldn't say exactly which ones are present at Boeing but frankly, from the public reports almost all of them sound applicable. With this in mind, process change is the only appropriate remedy, regardless of what the union thinks. I've never heard any union people get mad at something that improves their job though.

[0] https://skybrary.aero/articles/human-factors-dirty-dozen