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Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by stuartjohnson12 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:01AM (#39523536)
I actually think this is the opposite of noble savage imagery, and that's actually what you're doing. They're not saying things were better in the past when technology was more primative, you're the one saying that the past was better and that getting to where we are now how we have is "screwing up" something (presumably a good thing that existed in the past that is no longer present).
Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by nonrandomstring on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:06AM (#39523594)
Then I am mistaken in my labelling. Maybe something more like the "pathetic savage"?

Or what other name might we give to this phenomenon of dismissing extinction level mistakes with the appeal to the idea that "hey, it's progress"?

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by stuartjohnson12 on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:56AM (#39524129)
I think "bad tradeoffs" is the term you're looking for. If you think the negative outcome has infinite negative value, there's not really a lot that can be said to that as it becomes a Pascal's wager.

If you don't acknowledge any of the tradeoffs involved in pollution and instead just make a point about harm in a vacuum, it's hard to know how to consider it.

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by nonrandomstring on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:19AM (#39524391)
No, I think everyone recognises tradeoffs here and your belief that I'm creating a dichotomy is unwarranted. I'm addressing distorted perception of the parameters of tradeoffs.

Like the overwhelming exceptionalism of how we all care about the environment and the future health of our children... just don't take our gas-guzzling cars and non-stick pans way!

We are not rational beings, but we so deeply believe we are.

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by Geisterde on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @09:38AM (#39524631)
Im on my 4th electric car, every single one has been remarkable in terms of cost, build quality, innovation etc.

If the cybertruck was out a year earlier, I suspect I know a few people driving "gas guzzling" trucks that would have bought that instead, because it would have been cheaper, faster, and in almost every measurable and unmeasurable quality, better.

Why do you think people will forever hold on to ICE? It strikes me that electric cars are a step change in almost every way, maybe the reason people still have ICE is they didnt have a compatible electric alternative at the time.

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by bowsamic on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:06AM (#39523586)
Noble savage doesn't mean that you think the environment of the past was better than the present, it means that you think the people were better before being corrupted by civilisation. I.e. it's about thinking that the changing environment under progress corrupts humans, which is the opposite of what the person you are replying to is saying and is exactly what the person they're replying to is saying...

Noble savage = humans fundamentally corrupted by civilisational progress

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by r3d0c on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:04AM (#39523571)
lol that's definitely not what he's doing, way to miss the point

unless you're actually arguing for toxic chemicals in the water that didn't exist more than 60 years ago

Re:Rainwater everywhere on the planet is unsafe to drink due... by nonrandomstring on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @08:15AM (#39523670)
> way to miss the point

All of those commenters deconstructing my clumsy use of "Noble Savage" (I admit it's not quite the right thing) - are indeed (maybe wilfully) missing the point.

A better expression might be the "Parochialism of the present". But that doesn't quite get to it. Nor even Thomas Hobbes' flowery and overblown conceit of past life as "Nasty, brutish and short".

It's about a phenomenon of lionising a one dimensional idea of "progress" in a patently self-deceiving way.