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Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by ripjaygn on Saturday February 24, 2024 @08:58PM (#39496900)
> Twitch Interactive, the operator of the service, reduced video quality in Korea from 1080p to 720p in September 2022 and terminated its VOD service five months later.

> The Korea Telecommunications Commission (KCC) determined the suspension of the VOD service violated the local telecommunications business law by undermining the interests of users.

> The commission has requested relevant data to examine whether Twitch had a justifiable reason for limiting the maximum viewing quality, but Twitch turned down the request, citing contractual confidentiality obligations.

I wonder what the relevant law says. Forcing a non-essential website to host and stream video content feels strange to say the least, especially given that streaming software like OBS can easily record the video locally to be uploaded to YouTube, AfreecaTV or whatever.

If it's deemed essential then the ISPs shouldn't be able to extort and extract profits from both sides of the pipe.

Also wonder why Twitch didn't provide the numbers given that they have already publicly said that the costs are high.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by gmerc on Saturday February 24, 2024 @09:29PM (#39497070)
Non essential doesn’t play into it. If you’re in a regulated industry and there’s conditions - be it airwave spectrum, minimal service criteria or something else, you have to operate within those conditions.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by adastra22 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @09:50PM (#39497159)
“Regulated industry” is doing a lot of the heavy lifting there for a video game streaming service.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by DinaCoder99 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @12:06AM (#39497821)
I'm confused—it very obviously is regulated, hence why we're discussing this at all. What do you mean?
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by paulddraper on Sunday February 25, 2024 @01:51AM (#39498303)
adastra22 means that given the relatively unimportant nature of the industry (video game streaming), you'd expect regulations to be light.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Retric on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:24PM (#39497308)
There’s a lot of countries and they all have different rules. Twitch likely isn’t regulated as a video game streaming service in most of them because there’s no reason for countries to create specialized rubles around video game streaming vs use some other more generic rules.

Companies really should consult lawyers when expanding to a new country.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by adastra22 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:34PM (#39497347)
Do you know if twitch is regulated in SK? Or is this just an aside?
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:36PM (#39497360)
Korea is fining them. Presumably they have some regulatory basis, and it isnt just a shakedown with no attempt at justification.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Guvante on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:52PM (#39497446)
Often the rules that require things of a company have penalties for non-compliance.

Those penalties don't always have exemptions for stopping service. In fact it might have the opposite to avoid trying to put political pressure by doing that.

Doesn't mean it is a regulated industry which is actually a very narrow term.

Remember you are generally required to follow regulations to collect sales tax which covers almost every company. That doesn't mean you are a regulated industry.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 24, 2024 @11:31PM (#39497675)
What is a regulated industry? I'm not aware of it as a legal term. Basically all industries are regulated in my understanding to a greater or lesser degree. Even in a lesser one, you can run up against those regs
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by adastra22 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @11:38PM (#39497703)
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/regul...

Medicine is a regulated industry. You can’t work as a doctor without an MD and good standing with the local licensing agency.

Banking is a regulated industry. You can’t start a bank without first asking permission. Your employees are held to higher standards than other industries, and with criminal repercussions for intentional or negligent violations.

Etc.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by s1artibartfast on Sunday February 25, 2024 @12:12AM (#39497862)
Not a very operational definition. You can't start a hot dog stand without permission either.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by ShamelessC on Sunday February 25, 2024 @01:59AM (#39498334)
That’s because restaurants are, believe it or not, also a regulated industry.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by cstrahan on Sunday February 25, 2024 @04:42AM (#39499303)
You should go reread the conversation as your response indicates that you misunderstand the person you are replying to, suggesting that you didn't follow the thread very closely.

Summarizing the salient bits here:

>>>> Those penalties don't always have exemptions for stopping service. In fact it might have the opposite to avoid trying to put political pressure by doing that.

>>>> Doesn't mean it is a regulated industry which is actually a very narrow term.

>>> What is a regulated industry? I'm not aware of it as a legal term. Basically all industries are regulated in my understanding to a greater or lesser degree. Even in a lesser one, you can run up against those regs

>> [insert blurb about concrete instances of "regulated industries", where an intensional definition was clearly desired instead (not an incomplete, extensional definition)]

> Not a very operational definition. You can't start a hot dog stand without permission either.

So, from the top: some industries are regulated. But, oh, not all industries which are subject to regulation are what we would call "regulated industries" -- that's "a very narrow term."

Great! What exactly is the definition of that very narrow term?

The immediate response to that inquiry was several supposed examples of "regulated industries".

But that's not a satisfactory response, because it doesn't generalize. For instance, a hot dog stand is subject to regulation ("you can't start a hot dog stand without permission either") -- but is it a so called "regulated industry" (which, remember, "is actually a very narrow term")?

And then we have your response:

> That’s because restaurants are, believe it or not, also a regulated industry.

The sarcasm is cheeky, but it still doesn't provide a meaningful answer to the original question: if not all industries which are regulated are "regulated industries", then what exactly does "regulated industry" mean?

So, a couple questions for you:

1) How do you know that restaurants fit the original commentator's definition of "regulated industry"? Were you told that restaurants are among the set of "regulated industries", which you've accepted without understanding why?

2) If you actually do know what makes restaurants a "regulated industry" (not merely just regulated), why not share the definition?

3) Alternatively, could it be that neither of the first two question apply: you made your comment without first comprehending the conversation?

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by ffsm8 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @07:51AM (#39500380)
Urm, you're the one that's not paying attention here.

The definition was provided by linking to the description on the Cambridge dictionary.

The examples were likely provided because it's often easier to understand a definition with additional examples.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by cstrahan on Tuesday February 27, 2024 @02:22AM (#39521106)
Here's that Cambridge dictionary definition:

> a type of business that is controlled by government rules

And here's the comment that kicked off this sub-thread:

> Often the rules that require things of a company have penalties for non-compliance.

> [...]

> Doesn't mean it is a regulated industry which is actually a very narrow term.

So a regulated industry is a type of business that is controlled by government rules, but (per the aforementioned comment) not all businesses which are controlled by government rules are regulated industries.

So, again, I think the response of

> That’s because restaurants are, believe it or not, also a regulated industry.

is a bizarre blend of unhelpful and rude.

Perhaps you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by s1artibartfast on Sunday February 25, 2024 @01:04PM (#39503107)
Per that definition, there are no unregulated industries. This seems contrary the the argument that regulated industry is a "very narrow" term, and the regulations on twitch in SK obviously don't count
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by adastra22 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:45PM (#39497415)
“Regulated industry” is something very specific and different from general commerce regulation.

Banks are regulated industry. If you want to start a bank you have to submit your business plan to regulators for approval, and then operate within very strict rules with criminal penalties for intentional deviation, and government inspectors who come by to make sure everything is by the book.

Twitch, a video game streaming service, being regulated in the way investment banks and nuclear power stations are regulated is a weird claim to make.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by petesergeant on Saturday February 24, 2024 @11:48PM (#39497749)
> “Regulated industry” is something very specific ... different from general commerce regulation

Telecommunications is generally a regulated industry in most countries, as is broadcast media

> Twitch ... being regulated in the way investment banks and nuclear power stations are regulated is a weird claim to make

You are literally responding to an article that explicitly says Twitch was fined by the regulatory body in charge of telecommunications, not a "general commerce [regulator]"

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by adastra22 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @11:59PM (#39497784)
Telecommunications (e.g. the FCC) is a general commerce regulator.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Retric on Monday February 26, 2024 @10:29PM (#39519830)
The FCC is uninvolved with this case.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Log_out_ on Sunday February 25, 2024 @03:01AM (#39498638)
Korea is very good at recreating things better. Introducing Samsung stream..
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by mariusor on Sunday February 25, 2024 @02:49AM (#39498556)
They decided to stop their business in Korea due to unreasonable networking fees. It was discussed here some months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38539167
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by s1artibartfast on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:34PM (#39497350)
That is just reiterating the fact that you have to deal with reality and consequences.

That doesn't say anything about if those consequences are good, bad, or moral.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by olliej on Saturday February 24, 2024 @09:49PM (#39497156)
Afaict this is "you're in a regulated industry [whether or not it should be is irrelevant] but you're also not allowed to cease operation or leave that regulated industry, or you'll be subject to fines".
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Spivak on Sunday February 25, 2024 @12:06AM (#39497822)
Honestly it's one of the better systems for dealing with the "we aren't going to comply with the law, we'll just leave" (for some definition of leave) problem. If you try to pull this trick without pulling all of your business out of SK (i.e. Amazon) they can still collect the fine.

Probably cuts down on the performative exits >.> Facebook in the EU, in an attempt to bully regulators.

Sender pays clearly has backfired but I don't know if there's a solution that satisfies everyone outside of gov't footing the bill a la public roads and calling it an economic multiplier. Because yes internet is a series of tubes and all but video sites are sending couches to everyone, making it FedEx's problem, and then acting shocked when FedEx wants paid for large item delivery.

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by ronsor on Sunday February 25, 2024 @12:33AM (#39497980)
Users don't subscribe to FedEx in order to receive packages through them.
Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Spivak on Sunday February 25, 2024 @11:10AM (#39501937)
If they did would it change the argument? You pay $50/mo bucks to send and receive packages and if you sent everyone in america a couch they would either stop doing business with you or charge you more.

Hackers for some reason really hate the "we charge a flat rate to everyone averaged across normal usage so almost everyone doesn't have to think about metering but then charge outliers more" pricing model. It works the same for roads, once you're driving semis the price goes up. XPO doesn't go "well we shouldn't have to pay for our road damage because the stuff we deliver is requested by our customer."

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by justinclift on Sunday February 25, 2024 @09:09AM (#39500947)
Oh, I didn't realise the internet service in Korea is a public utility, so people don't need to subscribe to an ISP which installs/maintains the infrastructure.

Or is that my misunderstanding something?

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by Rust4004 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @10:49PM (#39497430)
> Also wonder why Twitch didn't provide the numbers given that they have already publicly said that the costs are high.

All web service operators including Twitch have signed an NDA about their cost of data transfer. But there are some estimations. 50-90 billions in KRW per year (from a financial report by Daishin Securities)

Re:Korea slaps $327,067 fine on Twitch for suspending service by DinaCoder99 on Sunday February 25, 2024 @12:08AM (#39497829)
I'm surprised contract law allows you to obscure your own operations from the state. That doesn't sound right.