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Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by xepriot on Saturday February 24, 2024 @12:51PM (#39493540)
No, when unintentioned outcomes occur in the world, this is not racism. The sun is not racist for burning white skin more severely than dark skin, and when AI are trained on disproportionately white data, their outputs are not racism.

When racist employees of Google intentionally racially cleanse their products, this is racism.

Let me know what is confusing about the concepts of agency and intention., and I will try to clarify

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by consumer451 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @12:57PM (#39493594)
You appear to only comment here on HN when race comes up.

So, are the Caucasian people who were involved in any of these miss-optimizations, aka mistakes, racist against themselves? Are they traitors?

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by throwawa14223 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @02:32PM (#39494460)
At the least they are oikophobes.
Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by ForHackernews on Saturday February 24, 2024 @12:56PM (#39493589)
"I want a model that recognizes faces, but I didn't train it on enough black faces" => not-racism, according to you.

"I want a model that produces racially diverse images of people, but I didn't test it in racially homogenous historical contexts" => yes-racism, according to you.

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by baobabKoodaa on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:19PM (#39493801)
> "I want a model that produces racially diverse images of people, but I didn't test it in racially homogenous historical contexts"

You are again misrepresenting the OP. If you go actually read the OP you will find it very clearly describes Google's initial steps towards fixing the problem, which was: double down on race-swapping in historical contexts. The OP very clearly (and correctly) argues that this is not the action of a person who goes "oops forgot to test in this context" but is rather the action of a person who very intentionally wanted the image generator to behave this way in this context.

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by xepriot on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:10PM (#39493722)
Did the developers intend their product to manipulate race in its outputs or not? It's a simpler question than these contorted reformulations you present.

But probably not simple enough to pierce ideological bias. I'll ask instead: you really believe that it wasn't tested in historical and other contexts where white people were erased?

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by ForHackernews on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:16PM (#39493774)
> I'll ask instead: you really believe that it wasn't tested in historical and other contexts where white people were erased?

Occam's Razor: Of course it wasn't or they wouldn't have released such a ridiculous embarrassing product! C'mon, I think you're the one wearing blinders here.

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by xepriot on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:27PM (#39493881)
We'll see what comes out later, but I give it 90:10 odds that this behavior was seen in testing and accepted by developers/DEI commissars - the failure was in not forseeing the reaction of the non-DEI-extremist public.

Of a piece with 'Google more or less explicitly said I won't be promoted because I'm White' stories.

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by baobabKoodaa on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:20PM (#39493811)
> Of course it wasn't or they wouldn't have released such a ridiculous embarrassing product!

Then please do explain why their first reaction was to double down on "diversity" in historical contexts, before eventually retreating?

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by ForHackernews on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:27PM (#39493879)
Because adding the word "diverse" to the text of to their output is a lot easier than retraining their model? They're always going to try for the easy fix first.

Have you never tried tweaking the error text first before giving up and redesigning your form that's confusing users?

Re:Problems in Gemini's Approach to Diversity by baobabKoodaa on Saturday February 24, 2024 @01:39PM (#39493976)
Hmmh. Fair enough. I didn't think about it from the perspective of "error text", but now that I think in that mental model, I think you're right here.