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Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by Aurornis on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:28PM (#39472713)
Companies reduce initiatives and headcount at the same time.

It's usually approached as a budget reduction exercise: Company is reducing budgets by X%. Select which projects get cancelled. Now work with managers to identify enough employees to lay off to reduce headcount spend by X%. Now reorganize remaining employees across remaining projects, with the understanding that a few extra people will leave due to future layoff fears.

The idea that companies like Twitter/X just removed a lot of employees and then operated exactly the same as before is a myth being propagated online right now, but companies must change their operations as part of layoffs. It's usually not obvious from the outside because the core product always gets attention, but side initiatives, internal tooling, new feature concepts, and even less-visible things (think bot/spam detection on X) lose attention that they may have needed.

But no, the idea that companies are making 10% of their workforce disappear at no cost to the business is just fantasy. The only time I saw this happen was when a company hired so fast that they didn't have work for some people to do, but that mistake was quickly recognized.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by tuckerconnelly on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:59PM (#39473156)
While X's main use case works, I just tried to run some ads there.

When trying to upgrade to verified org: "An unexpected error occurred"

When trying to change my display name: "An unexpected error occurred"

When trying to run an ad: "Awaiting verification" for a week

Contacting support through messages: No response

Finally finding a way to submit a ticket: 3 day response time with a standard response that didn't resolve the issue.

Responded to that ticket and haven't gotten a response in days.

I don't think they're operating at the same level as they used to :)

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by jprete on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:09PM (#39473280)
It's sad that you cannot even get through the workflow that gives them money. They must be in absolutely terrible shape.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by valval on Sunday February 25, 2024 @11:07AM (#39501905)
Yes, like all of Elon Musk’s undertakings; ready for bankruptcy at any moment, if HN is asked.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by hadlock on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:49PM (#39472998)
Twitter/X hasn't seen notable user growth since ~2015/16 and has been absolutely flat since then, coming up on a decade now. It was 325 million active users in 2015 and it's still about 300 million active users today (spring 2024). A decade of no growth. I don't know if twitter is functioning exactly the same as it was before, but if you have to pay the bills, cutting 80% of the workforce and holding the line seems to have worked in this case.

Having 5000 engineers on tap for... potential user growth? Makes sense if you're planning on user growth, but Twitter is kind of the poster child of "we don't need engineers for anticipated growth" given a near-decade of totally flat userbase number.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by Ozzie_osman on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:14PM (#39473357)
As a company grows (in size and age), there is definitely more waste and more bureaucracy. No impact in trimming that. But, larger, older companies also spend a lot of effort on defending their business or uncovering future business. Fire the people who do that, and you won't see any immediate impact to revenue or core metrics... But, you've probably reduced the future viability of the product (lower chance of uncovering new growth, higher chance of being disrupted by a competitor, etc).

You can see this a lot with companies bought by Private Equity firms. They slash costs and save a lot of short-term costs, and all looks good, but the company is now on a path to death.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by hadlock on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:29PM (#39473541)
I like your optimism, but twitter had already hired the best and brightest for a decade and were completely unable to move the needle, barely maintaining existing user count. You can see the same usercount story for traditional message boards/forums. There's just not that much demand for this kind of social media.

> the company is now on a path to death

Probably, but it's going to be a very long tail. Forums do not cost that much to run.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by baq on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:07PM (#39473261)
It absolutely isn’t functioning the same.

Technically maybe everything works more or less as well as before, after a year.

…but the experience is quite bad now: every other thread is full of crypto and/or onlyfans promoting bots. The algorithm displays a lot of obvious attention grabbing posts which have 300 replies, 10 of which are from humans. There’s a constant stream of bots trying to connect with you via follows or likes.

It’s a mess and a fantastic example of why anonymous and free communication platforms absolutely need professional moderation.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by stcroixx on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:13PM (#39473337)
On the other hand, I love it now and hated it before. Guess it depends on what you're looking for. Me - I like little to no moderation and government interference and don't find much offensive and have no problem just ignoring anything I do find objectionable. All worth it to be able to speak honestly.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by KittenInABox on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:25PM (#39473475)
I don't post a lot and I also find Twitter really annoying these days. I am used to getting pinged only by my friends to talk niche tech stuff, now I get porn/crypto bot spam... Trying to follow technologists I like, but their discussions are also mired in dumb blue checkmark takes and bots... OK maybe those blue checkmarks are speaking honestly but I'd rather have intelligent speech over honest speech at this point
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by itsoktocry on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:11PM (#39474027)
>I like little to no moderation and government interference

My personal politics better align with based Elon than the previous regime, but let's not pretend there's no moderation happening. It's just different.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by stcroixx on Friday February 23, 2024 @09:16AM (#39480816)
Surely, but I don't notice any less insane progressive takes, rather I also now see insane conservative takes. Appears additive to me.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by smsm42 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @03:13AM (#39490021)
True enough, but I'd rather take chances with the guy who proclaims he loves free speech, even if he turns out to be a hypocrite occasionally, than with the censorship regime whose only constant worry is they don't censor enough and need to find more ways to censor more.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by importantbrian on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:41PM (#39473686)
I don't think it even technically works as well as before. The iOS app seems mostly fine, but on web the feed or tweet fails to load and shows the blue retry button probably 1/3rd of the time for me now. Combined with all the bot issues you mentioned, that has dramatically reduced my Twitter usage. It's become incredibly frustrating to use. I only use it now when I click on a tweet link that's been shared with me.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by darth_avocado on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:43PM (#39474360)
If you're logged out, you can't see any Tweets unless you're directly viewing a specific Tweet, and even then you cannot see any other Tweet apart from the one you're directly viewing.

This was one thing we had tried on Twitter before Elon, and had found that it is detrimental to the platform and engagement. So, had to roll it back. But now it is a thing again. This drives down the popularity and overall usage of the platform, but some people will still claim it works the same (or even better).

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by baq on Friday February 23, 2024 @06:36AM (#39479384)
At least this was an intentional change, not something that just broke down out of sudden.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by itsoktocry on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:08PM (#39474000)
>every other thread is full of crypto and/or onlyfans promoting bots.

Remember when we were told Elon was going to unleash AI on the bot/spam problem and solve it in a month?

It's worse than it ever was. I hardly ever saw bots or spam. Now I have 100+ spam followers, and on the very rare occasion where I reply to something, it gets 90% spam likes. Ads are also crypto, soft porn games and drop shipping companies.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by darth_avocado on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:42PM (#39473698)
I worked at Twitter and let me tell you that's not how it works. When you whack most of the engineers out of the company, and if it still continues to work, that doesn't mean you don't need that many engineers. It means the following:

1. The ones remaining are practically working 24x7 every day for essentially the same pay, with the promise of more.

2. You keep falling behind on all the things you need to do to keep things alive and compliant. This eventually comes back in the form of outages or worse, FTC fines.

3. There is very little room for forward looking work, which means you are sacrificing opportunities for growth. E.g.

> 325 million active users in 2015 and it's still about 300 million active users today

These were two very different numbers. The numbers in 2015 were DAUs and the numbers today are mDAU. mDAU are in layman terms users that can be monetized. This number was ~180M in 2018, so the growth was there. Part of the reason why the ad revenue was growing for Twitter during that phase.

4. Safety and Trust on the platform drops quite a bit when you are understaffed. Regardless of your political beliefs or whether you're team Elon, when there are 10 people banning CP instead of 100, there is no way you could argue objectively that the platform stays the same.

There's plenty of other problems, but you would not know they exist unless you're one of the people left after the figurative massacre.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by valval on Sunday February 25, 2024 @11:08AM (#39501914)
> I worked at Twitter I bet you did.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by saagarjha on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:17PM (#39474100)
Twitter almost doubled their mDAU between 2016 and 2022. They definitely weren't doing anything. (I have no idea what the recent acquisition has done to the numbers, though.)
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by smsm42 on Saturday February 24, 2024 @03:09AM (#39490006)
Is there really a space for unbounded growth with these numbers? I mean, everybody who wanted Twitter account got one. Discounting bots and campaign accounts, where would growth come from? Would one expect literally every single internet user have active Twitter account? I don't think it's going to happen.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by salad-tycoon on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:42PM (#39472899)
Twitter shed 80% and still works, is still the go to outside of fringe empty echo chambers of the left and right divide. Not only that but they added a significant amount of features like Grok, which I know nothing about really, and Substack like payments.

80% is a lot and it works just fine. 7,500 to 1,300 in Jan 2023. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/twitter-is-down-to-fewer-tha...

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by NM-Super on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:05PM (#39473230)
Twitter's still working, but it's in a state that I think is worse than before. The spam bots alone seem to be orders of magnitude more prominent. I don't think I'd ever seen a spammer pre-headcount-change, and now "MY PUSSY IN BIO" is a running gag on the website because spambots are so prominent.

They also changed their content rules to allow drastically more content, which reduces the total amount of work to be done. You could argue that this is a good thing because the moderation was useless and censoring before, but the moderation also made it a friendlier place for major advertisers who have since pulled out—so changing the moderation resulted in a business model change. That's naturally going to reduce headcount.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by raydev on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:58PM (#39473882)
An implicit assumption I see often is that all 8000 Twitter employees were software engineers too, but at it's peak engineering only made up 40-ish%.

Without question though, despite the appearance of velocity in shipping features post-layoffs, the features were either small changes or if they were big, already partially deployed as experiments to small groups of users.

Aside from Grok, Musk's Twitter hasn't shipped anything new except and expanded monetization system (again, partially implemented when he took over anyway).

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by JohnMakin on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:47PM (#39472964)
They effectively disabled the developer API via absurd pricing. That alone would cancel a ton of projects/teams due to the load that likely placed on their servers. The user experience is also not even close to the same, while they've not really added any new features that likely weren't already in the pipeline. Not even to mention their tanking revenue and valuation. It's not even close to a "working the same as before" company.

Your definition of "working" needs work. Nothing you said contradicts the parent.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by DiscourseFan on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:51PM (#39473033)
I think OP just meant it was working to strip Twitter of the majority of its operating costs so it can be transformed into a sweatshop profit machine (but, in that case, I disagree, since its not making a profit).
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by tick_tock_tick on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:56PM (#39473104)
So what you're saying is everything anyone using Twitter cares about is working just fine.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by JohnMakin on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:59PM (#39473143)
I guess, unless you're also making the assumption that the number of daily users has remained the same from pre-elon acquisition. I promise you that is not the case. There's also that pesky profitability problem.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by watwut on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:35PM (#39473608)
From my point of view, just not. I went from using Twitter a lot to gaining a lot of free time ... be because overall experience now sux in many small ways.

Whereas there used to be interesting exchanges and threads before, algorithm now promotes similar nonsensical short responses again and again. The stuff on top is just not interesting anymore.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by pygar on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:23PM (#39473462)
I'm getting a lot of "tweets aren't loading right now" type errors. The app keeps jumping to the top when I'm scrolling into someones timeline. Sometimes i see my replies twice. Sometimes things just don't load. It's seems like death by a thousand paper cuts. That said, I'm sure the technical issues can be fixed eventually.

I'm also getting a lot of garden variety "West/Christianity vs East/Islam" type race baiters and stupid 9gag type memes despite actively trying to indicate to the algorithm that I'm not interested. I think they've skewed it towards controversy to increase engagement but it's just boring.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by importantbrian on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:45PM (#39473729)
It's so buggy right now. It feels like it's gone back to the old fail whale days. "It works" is a pretty low bar to clear. On the upside, it gave me back a lot of free time, because the Twitter experience is just too frustrating to deal with anymore.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by zanellato19 on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:51PM (#39473026)
Twitter doesn't work if we go by the same definition as before.

They have a ton of outages, the app is constantly buggy, the ad network is ridiculous, the moderation is nonexistent. I faced a bug that new tweets wouldn't load _for weeks_. If it was any other company, we would be saying they are done, but since it is Elon at the helm, some people pretend that Twitter still works.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by ryandrake on Thursday February 22, 2024 @09:01PM (#39476003)
Twitter is in the "Wile-E-Coyote just ran off the cliff" phase where his legs are still running on air. Companies like that have tremendous momentum, but an airplane can only glide so far after you turn off the engine.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by srvaroa on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:51PM (#39473032)
It still is cherry picking one out of many examples where the headcount reductions were by far not that drastic as in Twitter.

The parent reply has an important point: a good % of headcount reductions tend to affect r&d and the type of projects where cutting investment doesn’t have a negative short or even medium term effect on the company. Sometimes it can even be positive for operations (e.g. infra teams have to support less product teams). This is mostly why it’s very uncommon to see headcount reductions lead to instability, etc.

Long term effects (e.g. stagnation, no innovation..) may manifest, but are harder to see clearly in advance, and when they do happen the connection to those layoffs from N years ago is not obvious/even remembered

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by LargeWu on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:09PM (#39473282)
It "works".

The main app is generally functional, but it's easy to see the deterioration of the smaller subsystems that large platforms like that need for a good user experience. For instance, I have an account that I am unable to log into because their password recovery/change feature doesn't seem send me anything when I click it. I'm sure frequent users have a litany of little things they've noticed that are flaky or outright broken, even if they can still send and read tweets.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by watwut on Thursday February 22, 2024 @04:38PM (#39473643)
They got rid of stuff working with paying customers - ad companies. And that part is now failing so much, that Elon Musk went on multiple public tirades.

Twitter is not able to attract ads, because they don't communicate with companies properly and are chaotic.

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by itsoktocry on Thursday February 22, 2024 @05:13PM (#39474046)
>Not only that but they added a significant amount of features like Grok, which I know nothing about really, and Substack like payments.

A premium (as in requires money), also-ran AI with a juvenile "sense of humor" and payments? These are significant?

Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by beambot on Thursday February 22, 2024 @03:41PM (#39472879)
Enterprise Darwinism.
Re:Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired by SergeAx on Saturday February 24, 2024 @03:21AM (#39490053)
> the idea that companies are making 10% of their workforce disappear at no cost to the business is just fantasy

Until it is not. I am regularly interviewing people with remarkable low skills who want salary of a full-fledged software engineers, and they even had that salary before. Lots of companies overhired low-quality workforce in the last five years, maybe it's time to fix that.