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Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by dotnet00 on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @12:51AM (#39450592)
The processes being hard to just clone, involving a lot of detailed expertise and being extremely sensitive to minute differences.

The West is able to lean on existing knowledge Intel has from running its own fabs in the US and the knowledge of ASML in the Netherlands who makes the machines.

Basically, they could get a machine and take it apart and figure out how it works, but that's meaningless if they don't understand how to make the stuff or how to keep it working well.

Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by drevil-v2 on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @01:54AM (#39450860)
You don't think China already has folks working in TSMC fabs stealing IP?

If you believe that every Taiwanese engineer is rabidly anti-China then I have a vaccine I want to sell you.

It is my belief that China will steal what it can, corrupt who it can, threaten who it can and most importantly, re-invent what it is missing (they have a bigger STEM education pipeline that most Western countries combined) until they no longer have this achilles heel.

The only unknown is if there is will be hot war before they reach that inflection point.

Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by baq on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @02:44AM (#39451125)
The proof is in the pudding: they haven’t been able to replicate the process.

ASML tools are step 432 of 1234. There’s a whole fab built around it and a whole supplier ecosystem.

They will eventually succeed. That is obvious. High end chips have become existential in the modern world, especially now with AI, but have already been before that. When will they succeed is an open question as stealing the blueprint is absolutely not enough.

Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by MangoCoffee on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @03:40AM (#39451457)
>China will steal what it can, corrupt who it can, threaten who it can and most importantly, re-invent what it is missing (they have a bigger STEM education pipeline that most Western countries combined) until they no longer have this achilles heel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_Manufacturing_In...

China has done what you said since 2005. it've been 20 years. is China leading the semis industry?

Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by actionfromafar on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @05:20AM (#39452103)
And finally, they will force their citizens to be happy.
Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by itsoktocry on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @09:35AM (#39454300)
>It is my belief that China will steal what it can, corrupt who it can, threaten who it can and most importantly, re-invent what it is missing

So, from 10,000ft I see what you're saying, and might even agree.

But what possesses someone to describe a people or country like this? We do the same with Russia; "other" them, like they have inherently "evil" traits. As if the US isn't above or involved in espionage.

I guess I'm confused how otherwise seemingly intelligent people can look at another country and think their people are fundamentally different. But god forbid you point that lens at the wrong group.

Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by edgyquant on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @11:08AM (#39455566)
TSMC itself relies on lithography tooling coming from the west. I get people want the western world to be wrong here but they have the edge and China doesn’t. It’s going to take them awhile to catch up and by that point the west will have innovated in new ways. China overplayed its hand way to early and will suffer technologically for this.
Re:Japan Bets $67B to Become a Global Chip Powerhouse Once A... by insane_dreamer on Wednesday February 21, 2024 @09:45AM (#39454432)
it's not just ASML but its suppliers, like Zeiss that make some of the key components of chip-making tools that are extremely difficult to replicate