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Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by paulmd on Thursday February 15, 2024 @05:52PM (#39390390)
Yeah, as I’ve said before: the root problem here is that the EU wants to outlaw apples business model.

People don’t think of it that way, they tell themselves all the reasons why that’s a good thing, but that’s ultimately what it is - a legislative solution to end the “android vs iOS” debate for all time.

The argument is walled gardens shouldn’t exist, so the solution is to either legislate requirements that apple destroy the walls, or that they exit the market. That is a statement that most android advocates would agree with.

And the EU will largely just keep ratcheting up the legislation until that happens. Driving apple out is the point - walled gardens are (in the EU sense) unacceptable and the option for a walled-garden business model needs to be removed from the market.

Apple is (correctly) perceiving this and pulling out of the market, first by dropping the affected features, and I’m sure there will be a “next compliance requirement” before many years too.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by munk-a on Thursday February 15, 2024 @06:26PM (#39390739)
I feel like this is a win for consumers - I'd much rather there remain more OS competition on mobile devices[1] but if Apple wants to pursue a business model that excludes large portions of the world from their customer base that's their decision. I don't believe there exists any maliciousness from the EU towards Apple - they do, after all, benefit greatly from corporation tax revenues from Apple and iPhones are still quite popular in the EU. I think at the end of the day there's just a difference in the social expectation of privacy and freedom between the EU and NA. Apple, being primarily steeped in NA's expectations for freedom, hasn't built an ecosystem that is compatible with the EU's higher expectations.

1. Still hoping to see something amazing RIM!

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by justinclift on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:24PM (#39391323)
> NA's expectations for freedom

That'd be "corporate freedom" rather than "end user freedom" yeah?

That's my impression of what the NA model of freedom seems to mean these days.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by jokethrowaway on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:04PM (#39391129)
I don't see how you can call EU having any expectation of freedom when commenting about a law which forces a company to comply to regulation.

This actively reduces freedom, the freedom of running your business. You just don't care about it.

If you don't like walled gardens you can just not use them (I certainly never bought anything Apple for this very reason), there's no need to infringe on the freedom of everyone else who wants to use walled gardens.

The EU is in general becoming increasingly less free, thanks to barely elected bureaucrats who line up their pockets with sponsors money.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by munk-a on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:24PM (#39391331)
I think this is a great example of what I had mentioned as social differences of freedom between the EU and NA - in NA the freedom of businesses is often well protected up until it causes actual harm to human beings[1] - in the EU the freedom of human beings tend to be given priority of those of companies. It's important to remember that there are a lot of freedoms in this world and they often conflict in major ways. A quote that I love is "Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins". Freedoms are extremely easy to guarantee if they're non-conflicting but that's rarely the case. In this case the EU is siding with the freedoms of the customers rather than the freedom of the corporation - whether that makes the society less or more free overall is a matter of opinion.

1. I'd point to a great example from one of our current justices in this regard: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/mar/23/neil-gorsuch-sup...

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by jquery on Thursday February 15, 2024 @08:12PM (#39391764)
That dissent sent him to the top of the Heritage Foundation SC shortlist for being a corporate kowtowing stooge.
Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by FireBeyond on Thursday February 15, 2024 @08:41PM (#39392000)
> If you don't like walled gardens you can just not use them (I certainly never bought anything Apple for this very reason), there's no need to infringe on the freedom of everyone else who wants to use walled gardens.

No-one's forcing Apple customers to go outside the walled garden. They can still source their apps from only the Apple App Store.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by justinclift on Thursday February 15, 2024 @07:25PM (#39391340)
> line up their pockets with sponsors money.

That's not just an EU problem though. It seems to be well established (and perhaps worse?) in many places.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by trinsic2 on Thursday February 15, 2024 @08:59PM (#39392169)
Companies don't have freedom. People do. Companies are a collection of people that have a responsibility to the people who allow them to operating by charters. In our current age, I'd say that justice in this regard isn't operating as it should, because our governments are allowing selfish individuals within companies to do illegal stuff that go against the original intent of charters. Individuals that would normally be held accountable for their actions are now being protected from being prosecuted for harms they commit while being part business.

Companies are designed and allowed, by characters, to operate within the scope of whats good for society. If it harms the public good then it needs to be reigned in. I have no illusions that companies have the same standing and rights as living beings do. They are lifeless entities meant to be subject to the will of people.

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by johnnyanmac on Thursday February 15, 2024 @09:47PM (#39392539)
>This actively reduces freedom, the freedom of running your business. You just don't care about it.

In the same way Right to Repair, Minimum Wage, and Disciminatory hiring affects the freedom of running a business, sure. Unfortunately, rules are written in blood and this is happening because other businesses at this point abused the point of labor or customer satisfaction and needed to get dinged for it.

In this case, Blame Microsoft, I guess. Heck, even Google. we already know the result of a closed system abusing its platform and large share to make its product worse. I'm glad we're actually jumping into this before it's too late (like we usually do).

Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by Nullabillity on Thursday February 15, 2024 @06:03PM (#39390493)
Apple is free to switch to a less fascistic business model.
Re:Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on... by paulmd on Saturday February 17, 2024 @02:38PM (#39412687)
Is SELinux also fascistic? Grow up.

if someone wants to sell systems where the only supported configuration is SELinux, why should that be illegal?