This sums up much of american rural small business... I started working at 12 and had many random jobs between 12-18 that were run by awful people.

Our family has a small farm, my parents didn't think we did enough of that and put me in a white van full of migrant workers at 12 years old (hey the 80s!) to go pick produce in a field all day... It was grueling work but I got a first hand account of migrant farm workers and the way they are treated.

This logic validates any horrific human rights abuse, just as long as that abuse is an epsilon less horrific than what is happening elsewhere.

That shouldn't be the bar. "Brutal but better than where you came from." Should still be unacceptable. Work should afford someone dignity and fair compensation, not simply be better than the worst conditions the worker has dealt with.

This is a really shitty take. I don't think you're a decent person if that's how you truly feel.

The conditions are very unsafe. Commercial farming has terrible air quality. Farmers have significantly higher rates of cancers including lung cancer. There is no one inspecting workplace conditions when you are hiring undocumented workers. Every bad heatwave in the southwest you hear sad stories of people in fields dying of heat exhaustion because their supervisors provide no shade for breaks or water stations. There are no standards federally even for what might be sufficient despite the massive rates of heat related deaths experienced by farm workers relative to the general population.

What about the topic of this thread: wage theft? Should migrants have less rights to the product of their own labor not being stolen than citizens, just because they are not citizens?

What is your point? Wage theft occurs regardless of migrant status.

Why are you asking me to be responsible for the tangential discussion, that I did not start, on migrant status? Or are you going to post this exact same question to everyone up the chain including people you already agree with?

Sounds a lot like an abuser saying “as long as there are no visible bruises, they’re fine”.

Except way worse because you’re fine with bruises apparently. Death is where you draw the line. Disgusting.

Hahaha.

> Since the implementation of the ‘Remain in Mexico’ policy in 2019 and Title 42 in 2020, asylum seekers sent to Mexico have experienced kidnapping, rape, extortion, and other abuses by organized crime and Mexican officials.

> When the United States sends migrants to Mexico, criminal cartels are enriched by kidnapping them and then extorting money from their US-based family members to secure their release.

Just to comment on what your "good option" means for many. Maybe you meant the option is good for the US and employers, rather than for the migrant worker

How is the US responsible for Mexicans raping other Mexicans? Is it our responsibility to stop all bad things from happening or just those that happen in Mexico? Should we have a police force on Mexican soil?

Because they are not from Mexico, they are from elsewhere. They applied for asylum in the US, and that policy had US immigration agents force them to go to Mexico to wait years for an asylum hearing.

I can't see "US" and "Mexico" from space.

Mexicans are US Americans human neighbors.

> I can't see "US" and "Mexico" from space.

You are speaking with an adult. These arguments do not work on me. I pay income tax to the US, not Mexico, and if I don't, the US throws me in a real prison cell. Countries are very real to me.

Out of curiosity, what would your response be if Putin said "I can't see Russia and Ukraine from space, I am just providing security support for my human neighbors"

Ones talking about asylum, you’re talking about bombing campaigns

The invasion of Ukraine started with Crimea, in which Russian forces were in either unmarked uniforms or without uniforms.

Parent was talking about how they can not "see" USA and Mexico from space, so the topic I am addressing is borders and the control of borders.

If we don't want to acknowledge borders when it comes to asylum seekers, how can we expect others to respect them when it is easier for them to ignore them.

> How is the US responsible for Mexicans raping other Mexicans?

...Because we're all human beings?

That's a shame but I don't see how that's the US responsibility. This seems like a call for imperialism more than anything else. Let Mexico govern themselves please.

It's a human responsibility to not steal from someone whatever the circumstances.

And a human responsibility to not exploit people running away from a violent dangerous environment.

If you only care about people with a certain piece of paper then it says something about your total lack of ethics and human compassion.

How far does this human responsibility extend?

I agree don't steal and let's prosecute those who do. What about those in Mexico that steal from the the people who are fleeing violence?

Why stop there, how about we do something about the violent dangerous environment? Would you support military action in Mexico and South America to try and fix the problems?

How much do you understand about US state involvement with cartels? That’s a lot of optimism placed in bombs

I doubt that military action would resolve the issue, given the outcome of the USA's last couple actions.

But I also know that it will be something that get tried, probably more than once if the US thinks that it has a moral mandate to fix the problem in Mexico and South America as the parent was suggesting.

I think some managers use petty potential conflicts to filter out people that are not naive, have a backbone or are not desperate enough to succumb.

A worker that does not put up with petty BS is surely less likely to put up with major BS (like wrongful termination when getting pregnant or whatever).

It adds up. Multiply by the number of employees by the number of weeks in a year by the number of restaurants owned by the total number of ways in which the employees are deprived of small amounts at a time.

$10/week/employee adds up over decades.

But is it worth the resentment from said employees? Having to deal with the revolving door of naive new staff that needs to be trained, get up to speed, then leaves again when they realize they're being stiffed or they can do better? It just doesn't feel sustainable.

Not to mention the chance that you'll be found out by the authorities; I want to believe the punishment for wage theft is much more than the savings. Of course, that depends on how many people report it and how much evidence can be retrieved I suppose.

It's worth it to the tune of $50 billion per year with only $3 billion recovered

It sounds like a lot, until you realize it's only roughly $30 per year per employee in the US (roughly).

There's no justification in being shitty to your fellow citizen over this paltry sum of money. None.

It really doesn't.

Can't buy your way out moral bankruptcy with $10,400 over 2 decades.