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Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by hnfong on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @12:25PM (#39291311)
> It wasn’t rational for him to force his way onto Hong Kong

When that happened, Hong Kong was involved in ongoing riots and people were proclaiming (Hong Kong) independence on the streets for months. The legislature was stormed in an event that was not unlike Jan 6 Capitol Hill in the US (we sure did feel the awkward resemblance of the two events...)

Everyone can have their views on whether suppressing the riots was morally justified, but Xi had to do something to assert the CCP's sovereignty over Hong Kong. It was the only rational move unless they were prepared to give up Hong Kong.

> the territory would automatically become China in a few decades

Not sure which place you're talking about. Hong Kong is already part of China at least since the 1997 handover. And Taiwan will never become under CCP rule if status quo is preserved. Don't think there's any mechanism for "automatically" taking over Taiwan.

I don't know how familiar you are with the history, but long-term thinking and patience was essentially the reason China was able to gain back control Hong Kong from the Brits, pretty much on China's terms. They took advantage of the 99-year lease on the New Territories, waited until the Brits started developing on the leased (as opposed to ceded) land, and caught them with their pants down when they realized they had no feasible plan to partially hand back the territory when the lease expired.

Hong Kong has always been a template (in the CCP's mind at least) for taking back Taiwan, I don't know how you'd come to the conclusion that they would forego long term potential for short term gains. It's like you're talking as if they already invaded Taiwan and you're shaking your head over the stupidity of it. (No, it hasn't happened yet.)

The threat of course always seem real enough. It's all a game of chicken. The one who seems most crazy wins. Back then during the 1970s, China also threatened to invade Hong Kong if the Brits didn't hand it back to them. They want you to think the leadership is irrational. Makes them harder to predict.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by JumpCrisscross on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @01:10PM (#39291988)
> Hong Kong was involved in ongoing riots

Because Xi ham-fistedly forced through a badly-written security law [1] and intervened in its politics [2]. It’s like stupid Tiannamen Square.

> long-term thinking and patience was essentially the reason China was able to gain back control Hong Kong from the Brits

China was rational under the CCP. It’s myopic under Xi.

> don't know how you'd come to the conclusion that they would forego long term potential for short term gains

They already did.

Hong Kong’s mess was avoidable. Most Taiwanese identifying as Taiwanese and not Chinese was avoidable [3]. The trade wars, and China being reëclipsed in manufacturing by U.S. + Japan + Deutschland, were avoidable [4]. The bank losses on overseas loans were avoidable [5]. The corruption in the rocket forces, which guarantees no Taiwan action until China’s military strength is past its relative nadir, was avoidable [6].

All of these missteps would not have happened under proper CCP leadership. They are expressions of Xi’s personal hubris. China sacrificed the immortality of its state for the favour of its mortal dictator; it’s possibly the luckiest geopolitical stroke for America after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

> during the 1970s, China also threatened to invade Hong Kong if the Brits didn't hand it back to them. They want you to think the leadership is irrational

But they didn’t. That’s rational.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_extradition_b...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-56264117

[3] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/01/16/most-peop...

[4] https://www.safeguardglobal.com/resources/top-10-manufacturi...

[5] https://www.ft.com/content/da01c562-ad29-4c34-ae5e-a0aafddd3...

[6] https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-military-rocket-f...

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by hnfong on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @09:54PM (#39297372)
> Because Xi ham-fistedly forced through a badly-written security law [1] and intervened in its politics [2]. It’s like stupid Tiannamen Square.

[1] has no mention of Xi. [2] is in 2021, way after the protests/riots.

I have reliable sources (not mass media, especially not western mass media) telling me that the security law was championed by the Hong Kong government (Carrie Lam in particular). The Chinese Central People's Government was not actively involved until the whole thing spiraled out of control.

I won't/can't tell you how involved I was in the events, but Trust Me Bro ™ I'm not just reading the news and coming to the conclusions that I wrote.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by JumpCrisscross on Thursday February 08, 2024 @01:23AM (#39298896)
> have reliable sources (not mass media, especially not western mass media) telling me that the security law was championed by the Hong Kong government (Carrie Lam in particular)

Sure. This was in the open. That doesn't preclude Beijing's feet on the scales, which from everything I saw, in the open and with Trust Me Bros, what clear as day.

There were better ways to handle Hong Kong. Xi handled in a way that made sense for him. It cost China dearly in the medium term, and may prove to have been a geostrategic blunder in the long term.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by hnfong on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:17AM (#39299240)
> That doesn't preclude Beijing's feet on the scales, which from everything I saw, in the open

This is what I'm telling you didn't happen. My sources are not public, and you're free not to believe it.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by throwaway2990 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @06:11AM (#39300634)
I know you love the CCP and try your best to defend them, doesn’t change the fact that one of the primary reasons for the protests was the security law which came from Beijing.
Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by throwaway2037 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @01:42AM (#39298996)
> championed by the Hong Kong government

There was a significant divide within LegCo (local parliment). So no, it was not "championed". For other readers: The head of state (CEO) is hand selected by CCP. (Yes, I know about the elitist voting system to select a CEO, but the choice needs to be pre-approved by CCP.) Saying the person who was pre-selected by CCP is "championing" a proposed law by CCP isn't saying much. That was her job.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by hnfong on Thursday February 08, 2024 @02:24AM (#39299281)
The appointment of Carrie Lam was a mistake and I have no idea why the CCP did it. If the original claim is that CCP/Xi was irrational for appointing somebody who had a past record in somehow inciting mass protests (she was responsible for the reform bills in 2014 that sparked protests on similar scale), then yea sure I'll take that.

What I was responding to was the claim that "Xi ham-fistedly forced through a badly-written security law". This really isn't the case, and if your argument is that "well, everything done by the government is attributed to Xi personally, I rest my case.", I guess you're right then. Whatever you please.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by throwaway2990 on Wednesday February 07, 2024 @12:46PM (#39291614)
China was forcing HK to accept China laws and HK didn’t want it. They protested.

Don’t try and and make it sound like HK were just randomly protesting nothing.

Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by gggmaster on Thursday February 08, 2024 @08:05AM (#39301476)
HK is part of China.
Re:TSMC to build second Japan chip factory, raising investme... by throwaway2990 on Thursday February 08, 2024 @12:45PM (#39305014)
And it was part of 1 country 2 systems.

Which proved there is no such thing. Because the CCP still has their foot in HK and making sure there is no 2 systems.