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Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by nindalf on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:45PM (#39266071)
Affirmative action on the basis of socio-economic status is a good thing, and will replace affirmative action based on race. What surprises me is that you're surprised by this. Wasn't this called out by the Supreme Court in their judgement as a better alternative to the race based admissions they struck down?

> whatever objectives

They're very clear about their objectives too - they want more of their student body to come from a background of lower socioeconomic status.

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by Jun8 on Monday February 05, 2024 @03:51PM (#39266978)
You're absolutely right but that's not what's being done when the community income is being used rather than family income. This leads to many complexities, injustices, and people gaming the system.
Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by SamBam on Monday February 05, 2024 @04:56PM (#39267791)
People gaming the system? Are affluent kids moving into housing projects in order to get admitted into Dartmouth?

The fact is if they're in a public school in an underserved area, they are most likely going to a disadvantaged public school, and face strong headwinds trying to achieve the kinds of scores kids in affluent neighborhoods get.

Note also that multiple factors are being looked at.

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by Jun8 on Monday February 05, 2024 @06:31PM (#39268683)
No, I've provided a detailed example for Chicago's Selective High School Enrollment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39266951.

Generally when such systems are implemented the levels are not binary, e.g. housing project vs affluent suburb. My point was that for some bimodal neighborhoods using the neighborhood income average is not effective. Is there a national, annually updated list of neighborhood underserved-ness list?

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by bhickey on Monday February 05, 2024 @08:45PM (#39269759)
> Are affluent kids moving into housing projects in order to get admitted into Dartmouth?

This came up in Boston Public Schools. Admission to Boston Latin took into account the portion of a student body eligible for free lunch. It became mathematically impossible to be admitted to Latin if you weren't coming from a low income school.

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by SamBam on Monday February 05, 2024 @10:20PM (#39270375)
> It became mathematically impossible to be admitted to Latin if you weren't coming from a low income school.

I don't believe this is true, but if you have citations I'd be happy to hear them.

For instance, their accountability data [1] shows that, in 2023, out of 409 kids taking their ELA MCAS test, 92 were categorized as "low income."

I find this hard to square with your statement (all students came from low-income schools but 88% are not low income?).

1. https://profiles.doe.mass.edu/accountability/report/district...

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by bhickey on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @05:54AM (#39272970)
Students at shools where 40% or more of the student body is classified as low income receive 10 points towards exam school entrance. [0] Being a poor kid at a rich school is a penalty, while being a rich kid at a poor school is a bonus.

A student attending a school without bonus points would need to score 97 points. Class rank is a factor which effectively imposes quotas on schools regardless of students grades and or test scores. Back around 2016 there were a handful of schools where students needed to score in excess of 100 points to get into Latin.

Last year 408 high income students received bonus points while 29 low income students did not. The admission rates for these groups were 85% and 55% respectively. [1]

[0] https://archive.is/20220203094548/https://www.bostonglobe.co... [1] https://archive.is/20231107020144/https://www.bostonglobe.co...

Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by SamBam on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @08:33AM (#39273997)
Interesting. It sounds like the cutoff for schools getting the bonus points is too low, it ought to be fewer schools.
Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by bhickey on Tuesday February 06, 2024 @08:41AM (#39274064)
Alternatively give out bonus points on an individual basis. This is already done to a limited extent with homeless students receiving +15.
Re:SAT (and ACT) scores are highly predictive of academic ac... by remexre on Monday February 05, 2024 @10:27PM (#39270419)
Family income is easier to game than community income though?