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Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Sunday January 28, 2024 @04:40PM (#39170075)
I live in an area of Chicagoland that was a hub of the Chicago Outfit, a short walk from the house where Sam Giancana was murdered, but it's really no more interesting than all the rest of the backstory of the city. Into the 1970s, organized crime might have had some salience for civilians like us, but I think it's been decades since it mattered.

Which is interesting, because so many people (especially abroad) seem to think the area is defined by mafia-type organized crime. I was in a thread a few months back with someone who brought Frank Nitti into an argument about crime in Chicago!

The most interesting thing about the MKE story here is the connection to the movie Casino.

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by pessimizer on Sunday January 28, 2024 @05:23PM (#39170420)
I think you mean that the Chicago Outfit ceased to be relevant. Organized crime in Chicago existed on a massive scale (and spread throughout the Midwest and the South) until the Vice Lords were basically defeated by the Gangster Disciples, and in turn the Gangster Disciples were shattered by arrests of all of their leadership (leading to the "Insanes", etc.) There's still lots of black organized crime based in Chicago, but not at that scale anymore. On the closer-to-respectable side of organized crime in Chicago, even the "Democratic Machine" is largely dead.

That being said, the Mexican cartels operate in a big way in Chicago. Every cartel case anywhere has Chicago connections.

Europeans associate Chicago with Al Capone. It's because the Chicago Outfit became a popular worldwide genre, like Westerns or science fiction. Germans were almost more into Westerns than Americans were.

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Sunday January 28, 2024 @05:25PM (#39170434)
You could see 1,000 miles away that someone was going to jump in and object that Chicago has a lot of crime, and a lot of is organized. I'd hoped "mafia-type organized crime" would make it clear, but the objection still got raised on two separate threads. :)
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by lordnacho on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:00PM (#39170765)
> mafia-type organized crime

I'm not clear on what you mean. Surely there are gangs, many of them organized along family or ethnic lines, that control the typical crime markets like the drug trade. It may not be Italian-Americans, but there's plenty of other groups in such a large city.

Maybe they are more fragmented, but they are still basically made of full-time criminals who know each other and use violence to contest the market. In terms of scale, the industry is big enough that people specialize (import / distribution / money-laundering / etc) and so there's an economy requiring its own version of a justice system (aka negotiations, violence).

Isn't that pretty much the same as the mafia?

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:02PM (#39170775)
No, the mafia is a specific thing.
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by asta123 on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:18PM (#39170885)
Mafia was a very secretive organization. This was one of their core principles and their survival depended on being good at this. So if you lived in the 70s I wonder how many people would say mafia was a 1930s Al Capone thing and didn't exist as much any more.

(typo edited)

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by epcoa on Monday January 29, 2024 @02:09AM (#39173588)
Nonsense. The 1960s through 80s were when mafia awareness skyrocketed.

In terms of pop culture, The Godfather came out in the 1970s!

Anyway, Joseph Valachi and others turning states witness in the 60s broke down much of the secrecy. The RICO act was enacted in 1970 primarily to go after the mafia and led to numerous prosecutions over the next 20 years. If you lived in a large city you were aware of what was going on, and if not you heard about it on the evening news.

> Mafia was a very secretive organization.

The organizational structure and operations may have been secretive obviously but obviously they couldn't operate a large business if they were completely a secret.

Allegations that the 1960 presidential election was rigged by the mob were made at the time.

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by CBarkleyU on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:23PM (#39170921)
Doesn't putting "-type" kind of defeat that point? If you meant the mafia, just say the mafia
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:27PM (#39170949)
This is a very silly thread but: offsetting that argument is the obviousness of the objection. There is nobody in Chicago who isn't aware of modern Chicago crime, organized and otherwise.
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by jgon on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:03PM (#39170783)
Well it didn't. :) The person replying to your comment was basically saying the organized crime in Chicago is still relevant for civilians, and gave several examples, a direct rebuttal to your statement that "Into the 1970s, organized crime might have had some salience for civilians like us, but I think it's been decades since it mattered."

You'll note that this sentence of yours does not specify "mafia-type organized crime", so when someone replies about the relevance of what you did specify, organized crime, its a pretty clear line. :)

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:15PM (#39170867)
At any rate, my point is just that the Italian Mafia in Chicago and the midwest has an outsized influence in the popular consciousness and has for the last 30 years played essentially no role whatsoever in daily life (unless you're an enthusiast --- there's a community of them --- who keeps tabs on the remnants of the old Outfit and who "runs" it today).
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by ProjectArcturis on Sunday January 28, 2024 @06:23PM (#39170916)
Where can I read more about the Vice Lords / Gangster Disciples war?
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by throwaway2037 on Sunday January 28, 2024 @09:09PM (#39171988)
Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by RajT88 on Sunday January 28, 2024 @11:02PM (#39172558)
> On the closer-to-respectable side of organized crime in Chicago, even the "Democratic Machine" is largely dead.

When did that happen? I have a buddy of mine who attends community action groups run by local alderman out of churches on the south side. As of maybe 2017 he was telling me about how "The Machine" was alive and well and aldermen were still afraid to speak out about it (even if they move across the country afterward).

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by tptacek on Monday January 29, 2024 @12:41AM (#39173054)
As exemplified by the story we're commenting on, in the heyday of top-down large-scale organized crime, mob hits were a commonplace. We have RICO today because he violence, over the preceding 50 years, had gotten way out of hand. We have violence in Chicago today --- more than we had in the 1970s! --- but we don't so much have mob hits. An organized crime operation, protected by violence, run out of the Cook Country Democratic "Machine" would be one of the best kept secrets in the country. People would semiregularly get killed to keep it. But that doesn't happen.

I'm sure there's a lot of graft and corruption. There is everywhere we have single-party rule. But the "Democratic Machine" is not an Outfit-style criminal organization.

Re:Milwaukee reporter investigates cousin's 1978 car bombing... by pjc50 on Monday January 29, 2024 @04:57AM (#39174587)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli...

The conflict between mob and police seems to have gradually resolved into organized crime as policing.