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Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by SirensOfTitan on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:48PM (#39106833)
At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous.

I’m probably a minority of folks, but at this point I’m flying on airlines with the fewest Boeing Max generation planes in their fleet. I also don’t really trust the FAA to properly regulate Boeing after years of a close relationship—the recent groundings are the bare minimum.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by rightbyte on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:57PM (#39106961)
It is somewhat sad to see. Like, I don't see how modern manager culture of punishing loyalty, high worker attrition, short term profits, etc, can turn Boeing around.

Once the elite got rotten they need to be ousted, and the workers don't care (why would they?) and most shareholders have a voters' dilemma of caring at all due to too low stakes.

The only ones that care and can do something is the government, congress etc. Boeing need to be split up and sold off, and the management fired. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drak0n1c on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:16PM (#39107272)
In contrast, the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record and has become the most comfortable long distance aircraft. Is it a matter of separate teams, managerial era, or something else?

The models with issues appear to be the older ones with retrofits. Perhaps there are failure vulnerabilities when mixing today's computer-reliant design into past institutional-knowledge-reliant human design.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by cschmatzler on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:20PM (#39107317)
The 787 is absolutely plagued with quality control issues.

In particular, deliveries were stopped for almost two full years from September 2020 to August 2022, with more issues found recently. The Charleston plant is considered the worse one compared to Everett.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by buildsjets on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:12PM (#39108127)
Production of the 787 was consolidated in South Carolina in 2021.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/last-everett-built-boeing...

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by cibyr on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:52PM (#39107843)
The 787's record is somewhat less than impeccable if you consider the multiple lithium-ion battery fires: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_gro...
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by philjohn on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:52PM (#39108787)
Hard disagree on most comfortable long distance aircraft.

It's one of them, but not the only (and I'd argue not the most). The A350 beats it for me, plus, it doesn't have that pesky range issue that is causing Europe to Asia carriers to adopt the A350 (detours around Ukrainian and Russian air space).

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by darrenf on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:29PM (#39108418)
“Impeccable” is doing a lot of work there! The maiden flight was 2 years late, a series of failures caused the first delivery to take another 2 years, fractures were found in wings… I could go on, this article has a timeline of just the things which went wrong up to 2014: https://www.ibtimes.com/boeing-787-complete-timeline-dreamli...
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by MattGaiser on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:11PM (#39108114)
> the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record

It was also grounded for a period.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by rehitman on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @12:55PM (#39106927)
I haven't tried to avoid MAX, but I have two friends who tried very hard to change flights or only get flights that are not MAX. So you are not alone. You just need to spend more money and time
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by HappySweeney on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:48PM (#39108715)
I tried this, but they just switched planes on me last minute.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by monkeynotes on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:07PM (#39107116)
Is there a reason to isolate this QA culture to just the Max production line? I'm concerned about anything they have produced recently.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by psunavy03 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:49PM (#39108747)
No, they also got in hot water with the Air Force after the Air Force found tools in a KC-46 fuel tank . . .
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by kilroy123 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:05PM (#39107078)
I fly a lot, way more than the average person. I try to avoid the 737-Max, but I'm rather picky about which aircraft I want to fly on.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by anderber on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:03PM (#39108951)
What airplanes do you like flying on? Just out of curiosity.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by kilroy123 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:43PM (#39109485)
I prefer the A320neo to any 737. The Boeing 787-800 and 777-300s. The A330 is fine as well. It's been a long time but it's a joy to fly on a 747.

My dream is to fly on an A380 one day.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by anderber on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @04:01PM (#39109755)
Same here, I'd love to fly on an A380. I've flow plenty 747s as a kid, and I have great memories of them. The last one I flew was an A330-neo that I thought was really nice as well. Looking forward to fly the new Embraer E190 at some point.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by SauciestGNU on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @05:38PM (#39110962)
Last time I was on an Embraer, the emergency exit door alarm was buzzing until the plane left the ground and the fuselage flexed enough to get a seal. The fight itself was fine but that left a questionable impression.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by rootusrootus on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @10:42AM (#39118641)
My last flight on an Embraer was in turbulent weather and at one point the plane dropped a good bit in a downdraft and when the wings caught us there was a tremendous bang that went through the entire plane. Suddenly I wanted to be on the ground in the worst way, it wasn't a sound I like to hear an airplane make when I'm riding in it...
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by arwhatever on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @03:58PM (#39109705)
My experiences on the A380 have been particularly quiet and (in the configurations I’ve flown, if there are multiple) comfortable and spacious as well.

In fact it might the only aircraft model that my wife knows by its designation, due to how good her experiences on it have been.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by rootusrootus on Wednesday January 24, 2024 @10:39AM (#39118609)
I had high hopes for the A380, but it turned out less comfortable than I hoped. It may be an artifact of the sheer size, or the choice of engines, or the programming for those engines, but the cruising surges aren't comfortable for me.

So far the 787 has been the nicest long distance plane I've flown in (though I never did get a chance to fly in a 747).

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drstewart on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:07PM (#39107132)
So what are your thoughts on people who won't take the vaccine because they don't trust pharma companies and the FDA?

Also, what are your thoughts on the EASA and why they haven't banned the Max?

I find it hilarious how many people who mock people who "don't trust the experts" and "do their own research" suddenly engage in the same thing when it comes to other domains. Make no mistake: anti-Maxxers are kinfolk to anti-vaxxers, even if you don't want to admit it.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by Mordisquitos on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:39PM (#39107634)
If your aim is to travel there are arguably safer alternatives to flying in a 737-MAX that fulfill the same purpose, namely flying in a pre-MAX 737 model or on any Airbus model. If you have no alternatives available and you are so scared of the 737-MAX that you choose not to travel it may be irrationally overcautious, but there is arguably a minuscule increase in safety nonetheless.

If your aim is to improve your immunity to an infectious disease, the only alternative to vaccination that fulfills the same purpose is to catch the disease, which is definitely not safer. If you are so afraid of FDA corruption in favour of pharma companies (or of needles) that you choose to avoid improving your immunity altogether, you're still at risk of catching the disease anyway, which is clearly less safe than any purported risk of getting vaccinated (that is, unless you make huge changes in your lifestyle to avoid human contact).

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by earthling8118 on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:19PM (#39107312)
That is absolutely not the same thing. If I don't fly on a plane, the worst thing that happens is the company doesn't get my money. If I don't take a vaccine the worst thing that could happen becomes a potential loss of vital senses or even death(s).

Your ending statement could hardly be further from the truth. There's no evidence that these groups of people are related.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drstewart on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:28PM (#39107479)
> If I don't fly on a plane, the worst thing that happens is the company doesn't get my money.

There are people that state they'd rather drive than fly on a Max.

The worst that can happen is a statistically much higher likelihood of dying. On the other hand, if you don't take the vaccine, the worst that happens is Pfizer doesn't get your money.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by margalabargala on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:53PM (#39107864)
> On the other hand, if you don't take the vaccine, the worst that happens is Pfizer doesn't get your money.

Also, y'know, the whole increased risk of serious illness due to a lack of immune protection that would be granted by the vaccine.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by zaptheimpaler on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:19PM (#39107308)
Yes these are clearly identical situations with no difference at all! /s
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drstewart on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:26PM (#39107437)
You're right, in one situation you have people rejecting a product with years of research vetted by regulators around the world because they don't like the business practices and politics of the organizations behind it. On the other, you have... the same exact thing.

Whoops. They are the same.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by lamontcg on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:57PM (#39107916)
I'm not rejecting the physics of airtravel, or that planes can in principle be engineered and built safely.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by inferiorhuman on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:50PM (#39107806)
Assuming you're not being intentionally obtuse: the FDA makes some decisions purely out of politics (e.g. many schedule 1 drugs) and they make other decisions based on higher tolerance of risk in certain situations. Perhaps the FAA should slap a black box warning on the 737 to regain credibility.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drstewart on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:41PM (#39108619)
You're arguing my point. Both anti-vaxxers and anti-Maxers believe the regulatory agencies are corrupt and politicking, therefore they substitute their own scientific opinions where they feel like it.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by inferiorhuman on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @07:01PM (#39111744)
Nah. The FDA offers a nuanced approach making criticism far less reasonable. The FAA presents the flying public with an all or nothing approach. It's entirely reasonable to criticize the regulatory capture that got us here. It's also quite reasonable to be dissatisfied with the status quo at the FAA for the time being.

If we'd seen more thalidomide babies, or if people were being harmed en masse by vaccines perhaps things would be more comparable. But they're not so they're not. Besides, the FAA is explicitly tasked with promoting the business interests of American companies while also promoting safety. That's quite different than the FDA, and a more reasonable comparison would be between the FDA and NTSB.

Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by drstewart on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @10:58PM (#39113458)
Nah. If we'd seen more Max deaths you'd be right, but the hundreds of thousands dead from the opioid crisis or the millions of lives destroyed from the war in drugs due to marijuana being on schedule one shows the FDA is beholden to the pharma and prison industries. Not trustworthy.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by graphe on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @01:27PM (#39107452)
Medicine isn't science, it's a discipline. Flying is science. There is no "this will fly in my opinion". As ridiculous as saying I trust one organization so all are fine.
Re:United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider altern... by rockemsockem on Tuesday January 23, 2024 @02:32PM (#39108477)
I don't agree with who you're replying to, but this is a terrible comparison.