Was my post too long for you? You must have missed this part: "reasons that often have little to do with Java as a language".

I've saw it, but the remark about the ecosystem still reflects over the language, hence my post.

My point isn't that there's something intrinsic to Java that leads to nightmarish codebases, but there must be something associated with the Java brand name that leads to it. I haven't seen such a large percentage of this lack of skill affiliated with any other language (granted, I haven't spent much time working with, e.g., VB or PHP codebases).

I don't know what it is about Java that seems to encourage the mess, but there is something.

You can see this in any enterprise code base.

I have seen lots of awful code, when you combine software design done by out of touch architects, with lousy enterprise coders, regardless of the chosen language.