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Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by ska on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:44PM (#39017033)
Fair use is a defence you can use when you infringe copyright [edit for clarity] or in other words the action you take would otherwise infringe.

It's not fair use because you want it to be, and it's not at all legally clear if this defence is valid in the case of AI training. But it's not clear it isn't, either.

This is basically what all the noise and PR money is about, currently, in hope that shaping the narrative will shape the legal decisions.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by munchler on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @01:59PM (#39017303)
Fair use is not copyright infringement! It’s a limitation placed on copyright to balance the interests of copyright holders with the public interest.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by ska on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:10PM (#39017497)
Of course this all depends on jurisdiction, but e.g. in the US for example fair use does not show up [oops, see note] in the limitations and exceptions in the copyright definition (like e.g. government use does), but relies on case law, the "fair use doctrine". This means quite literally it is a framework for understanding the defence of a particular use based on precedent: the defendant(s) argued it.

It's a bit of a quibble to differentiate between allowable infringement or exception, here, so i've edited original.

[note: 0xcde4c3db points out correctly that it does actually show up since 1976, but in a way the defers much of the definition back to case law, so same effect]

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by 0xcde4c3db on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:21PM (#39017699)
Maybe there's some nuance of your description that I'm missing, but fair use is codified as a limitation to copyright in US statute (although not until 1976) [1]. Application of it to any given situation is still heavily dependent on case law, though.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by ska on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:41PM (#39018007)
Fair enough - I had forgotten that quirk in the US situation, it was added to statute in a way that doesn't really define it, so you are back to case law.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by munchler on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:17PM (#39017635)
I think it makes a difference, because it shifts the burden of proof. If fair use is a kind of infringement, then it’s up to the “infringer” to prove fair use. I think that’s ethically and legally backwards: the copyright holder should have to prove that the use was not fair.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by ska on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:39PM (#39017972)
Ethics aside, and again US specific, but the supreme court literally defines it as an affirmative defence.

Even this is a bit murky though, as a district court has argued it goes beyond that.

Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by blibble on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:38PM (#39017965)
and it seems unlikely to benefit society to let Microsoft and Google to hoover up 100% of creative works, then use that to compete with everyone in that industry to such an extent they can no longer make a living
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by kevingadd on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @02:34PM (#39017892)
Fair use is a legal defense that requires you to pass multiple tests. It's not a "thing" that you can just assert all AI training is and expect people to believe you.
Re:On being listed as an artist whose work was used to train... by Tao3300 on Tuesday January 16, 2024 @04:29PM (#39019405)
The fair use defense in this situation is the equivalent of the YouTuber who puts "No copyright intended! I own nothing!" in the caption.