News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by lelanthran on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:33AM (#38913388)
> If Crazy Carl says that aliens abducted his prize turnip, that is in itself evidence that aliens did the deed. It is wildly unpersuasive evidence, but nonetheless evidence.

You're correct, evidence exists on a spectrum from "highly implausible" to "highly plausible".

> People like to believe that "someone says" isn't evidence, which is wildly disconnected from how human society works.

Human society is multi-faceted.

In the sciences, "someone says" is the lowest form of evidence there is. It is so close to "no evidence" that we simply disregard it without further thought.

In the legal system, "someone says" is the highest form of evidence there is - witness testimony can, and routinely does, trump any other evidence.

These are the two extremes. Other human societal systems use the word "evidence" to mean anything in between these two extremes.

You are conflating the science's usage of the word "evidence" with the legal usage of the word "evidence".

Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by soerxpso on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:47AM (#38913636)
> In the sciences, "someone says" is the lowest form of evidence there is. It is so close to "no evidence" that we simply disregard it without further thought.

Not really. "Someone says they conducted an experiment in a certain way and the data they gathered was as follows:" is still a form of "someone says You're trusting that they aren't lying about their data (and they often are).

Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by pixl97 on Monday January 08, 2024 @01:11PM (#38915804)
In science the point of someone saying they conducted an experiment in a certain way is so you can also perform said experiment and reproduce their evidence. If you choose to or not is a different story.
Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by soerxpso on Tuesday January 09, 2024 @12:25AM (#38922671)
I don't think I'd be able to believe more than maybe 0.0001% of true scientific claims if I had to use an epistemological system where I only believe results I've personally replicated. Am I supposed to build my own version of the large hadron collider in order to believe in modern particle physics?
Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by trashtester on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:21AM (#38914246)
> In the sciences, "someone says" is the lowest form of evidence there is.

Actually, it really depends on: - who says it - is the statement within their field of expertise - do they have known or likely personal incentives - does the topic carry significant political, religious or ideological implications - is the topic politicized - is the field itself heavily ideological or activism oriented, hard science or somewhere in the middle - is the statement consistent with statements from most other trusted experts

Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by mhuffman on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:57AM (#38913820)
>In the sciences, "someone says" is the lowest form of evidence there is. It is so close to "no evidence" that we simply disregard it without further thought.

hmmm. So citations in scientific papers are really disses? Interesting!

Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by malfist on Monday January 08, 2024 @11:28AM (#38914381)
That's not OP's point and you know it.
Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by throwawaymaths on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:43AM (#38913567)
nonetheless, the point stands. The original phrase is "the plural of anecdote is data" and sometimes in the early aughts that got corrupted to "the plural of anecdote is not data".

It's important, because all of our evidence flows through subjective interpretation and a human reporting mechanism. Even if a computer mainlines some numbers to a data store, there's a subjective force: why did the experimenter choose to focus on those measurements?

Re:The Phrase "No Evidence" Is a Red Flag for Bad Science Co... by lelanthran on Monday January 08, 2024 @10:56AM (#38913805)
> nonetheless, the point stands.

I'm not contending the point (I'm in slight agreement with you, I believe). I'm only trying to point out that people are often talking past each other, because each person in that two-way conversation are often using different meanings of the word "evidence".

There is too much nuance to call either end of the spectrum "wrong for the meaning of 'evidence'".