News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by throwaway67743 on Saturday January 06, 2024 @06:59PM (#38896894)
Executives are personally liable for loss of life, regardless of the law it is morally contemptible to hide behind a corporation. Until people go to jail for manslaughter this will not change.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nimbius on Saturday January 06, 2024 @08:42PM (#38897529)
worth noting for no particular reason China had a baby formula scandal in 2008 that led to the death of four infants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

The Intermediate People's Court in Shijiazhuang sentenced a farmer, Zhang Yujun, and a senior manager, Geng Jinping, to death in 2009. five more people received life sentences and the main company behind it went bankrupt.

this was for four infant deaths.

Boeing killed 189 indonesians in 2021 and executives didnt so much as take a breather at the country club between swings, so good luck.

Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by yongjik on Saturday January 06, 2024 @11:03PM (#38898309)
I'm sure sometimes China's legal system works, but we should also consider frequent cases when it does not, e.g.,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision (2011)

40 people died in train collision, and then:

> On orders from the authorities, the rescue effort concluded less than a day following the accident, and the damaged train cars were seen being broken apart by backhoes and buried nearby. The Railway Ministry justified the burial by claiming that the trains contained valuable "national level" technology that could be stolen. However, hours after the rescuers had been told to stop searching for survivors, a 2-year-old girl was found alive in the wreckage.

So, basically, all we know is that Chinese political system is set up to protect powerful people (such as politicians who are overseeing national rail projects). On the other hand, a local milk dealer is expendable, just as he would be in America.

The main difference is whether these powerful people are called "bourgeois" or something else.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by heyoni on Sunday January 07, 2024 @01:10AM (#38898938)
Or one of the infants that died drinking the tainted milk belonged to someone powerful.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by kingTug on Saturday January 06, 2024 @10:40PM (#38898199)
China executes billionaires with some regularity. Li Jianping got the death penalty last year. There were like a dozen that got it in the aughts from mining corruption. Not to say they are free of corruption but America will never do this.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by ekianjo on Saturday January 06, 2024 @08:49PM (#38897555)
> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois.

Its not a problem of capitalism its a problem of a judicial system having no balls to put execs in prison.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nimbius on Saturday January 06, 2024 @08:57PM (#38897614)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swill_milk_scandal

The US had one of these scandals too. nobody was arrested, no one charged. Tammany Hall politician Alderman Michael Tuomey, known as "Butcher Mike", defended the distillers vigorously throughout the scandal—in fact, he was put in charge of the Board of Health investigation.

The guy basically ended all investigation and shielded all guilty parties.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nyokodo on Saturday January 06, 2024 @10:04PM (#38898022)
> The US had one of these scandals too

In 1850, we were in the buildup to the civil war and hadn’t even ended slavery, the political and legal environment were drastically different. I’m not suggesting there aren’t lessons to learn but the comparison is ridiculous.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nielsbot on Saturday January 06, 2024 @08:59PM (#38897625)
The problem is called regulatory capture. And it’s by our campaign finance system. And that’s a result of unhindered capital accumulation by a minority.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nyokodo on Saturday January 06, 2024 @10:18PM (#38898091)
> regulatory capture

You don’t need a campaign finance problem to get regulatory capture. Only industry insiders have the context to regulate industries. They come from industry, they know and are known by all the players, and back to industry is where they want options to return. They see the world in terms other insiders do and they don’t want to burn any bridges. This is a recipe for industry getting what they want in most cases.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by nielsbot on Sunday January 07, 2024 @01:51AM (#38899124)
I agree "revolving door" is also a huge problem.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by virtualritz on Saturday January 06, 2024 @09:01PM (#38897641)
> Its not a problem of capitalism its a problem of a judicial system having no balls to put execs in prison.

Parent was talking about root cause, not cause.

In the US, corporations, through campaign contributions, lobbying, etc. have influence at all levels of governance. In the end this requires money above all.

The conclusion that the system (including the judical one) is rigged in favor of such coroporations has "something" to do with capitalism isn't too far fetched.

Or for the case at hand: your point would be that the 346 people didn't die because of Boing taking shortcuts for profit; they rather died because their resp. planes fell out of the sky? ;)

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by diob on Saturday January 06, 2024 @09:04PM (#38897659)
It's not Capitalism, it's just a result of the judicial system that results from Capitalism. Right?
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by dcow on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:35AM (#38898784)
America is not founded on capitalism and our judicial system is not innately born from it. Not saying capitalism via corporate lobbying and bribes hasn’t had an effect on the notion of justice, but our foundational legal principles exist outside of our nation’s choice of economic policy.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by diob on Monday January 08, 2024 @12:46PM (#38915468)
No one said it was founded on capitalism. But that is our economic policy, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by dcow on Wednesday January 10, 2024 @09:04PM (#38946498)
For the judicial system’s behavior to result from capitalism would imply that our economic policy is baked into our foundational doctrine. I was just pointing out that capitalism did not beget our legal system.
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by diob on Saturday January 13, 2024 @12:28PM (#38982213)
What do you think capitalism is? Define it, and I think you'll see our foundational doctrine is designed to enshrine and protect the ideas of capitalism.

Much more talented and studied folks than I have explored this in depth, which you can find if you google capitalism and it's entanglement with the foundation of the USA.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by bobthepanda on Saturday January 06, 2024 @09:26PM (#38897791)
I mean, China still has food safety issues to this day, so it's not as if this seems to be working https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China
Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by breezeTrowel on Sunday January 07, 2024 @12:40AM (#38898801)
> Capitalism just isnt set up to punish the Bourgeois.

Please read your own link. There were coverups and censorship galore. The problem was this story eventually got so big it could no longer be swept under the rug like so many things were and still are.

Re:FAA orders grounding of more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s by doubloon on Sunday January 07, 2024 @01:11AM (#38898949)
this is wrong. China cracked down on milk whistleblowers and severely repressed and harassed them, they stopped anyone from discussing the problem on the internet. Parents of the children who were harmed basically were told to shut up by the government.