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Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by ben_w on Saturday January 06, 2024 @06:33AM (#38890560)
While the only currently known Von Neumann replicator is organic life, my bet is that a robotic one will be made at the latest by the end of century unless some major global catastrophe happens first.

Might turn out that organic life is pretty optimal already and we still dominate in numbers, or not, that kind of specific is really difficult to guess at even once the first example gets made (look at all the people looking at each version of GenAI, or even video game graphics 30 years before GenAI, and arguing that no further improvements are possible; or in the other direction, Concorde was both the first and the last supersonic passenger liner).

Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by namaria on Saturday January 06, 2024 @06:43AM (#38890626)
You got me thinking, could we distinguish engineered vs emergent life? I mean, I at look those animations of proteins in the cell and... it looks pretty robotic to me. Maybe it's projection in terms of how we interpret the data.

But I really like that the answer to a most ancient question such as "what is life" is building up to something like "it's all nanobots controlled by molecular computers"...

Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by ben_w on Saturday January 06, 2024 @07:31AM (#38890901)
> could we distinguish engineered vs emergent life?

I think we can tell the difference between engineered and evolved (but note that simulated evolution is still evolution) — oddities like the path of the recurrent laryngeal nerve are cited as evidence against an intelligent designer, and I expect it isn't the only such oddity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve

> But I really like that the answer to a most ancient question such as "what is life" is building up to something like "it's all nanobots controlled by molecular computers"...

If you've not already watched it, I recommend this video by A Capella Science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvxPSQNMGc&t=198s

Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by namaria on Sunday January 07, 2024 @10:29AM (#38901993)
Flaws are not proof of non intentional emergence vs intentional design. We design flawed systems all the time.

Besides, it would be a very naïve stance to think the universe as it is today was drawn complete and definitively. There are a lot more nuanced and intricate creationist worldviews and they have been espoused in a clear headed way by some of the most fundamental characters in the history of science.

Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by ben_w on Sunday January 07, 2024 @02:03PM (#38904106)
It's more the type of pattern in the errors rather than the mere existence of them.

On the other topic, although the mere existence of errors would count against a supposedly all knowing and all powerful designer, that combination is not found in most religions, and not even all versions of Christianity.

Re:Gödel believed in the afterlife. In 4 letters to his moth... by namaria on Sunday January 07, 2024 @02:27PM (#38904316)
Hey that combination is also not found anywhere else in this discussion.