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Re:The Dark Arts – LessWrong by p-e-w on Friday December 29, 2023 @01:33AM (#38802283)
Key quote:

> your ultimate goal is to establish the credibility of your side so strongly that others' trust in you is not affected by whether what you say is actually true. Establishing credibility is the ultimate Dark Art.

Re:The Dark Arts – LessWrong by rstuart4133 on Friday December 29, 2023 @04:53AM (#38803304)
It's not a new observation https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7132775-the-key-to-success-... :

> “The key to success is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.”

Using bullshit to overwhelm facts is so well known it has it's own "law", Brandolini's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law There are famous practitioners of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

I didn't see much (any?) original thought in what he said. What's more I think there are better explanations for why he won than the one he gave.

Given two arguments, one that is a stream of bullshit and one that aligns with at least some facts the audience might know, how can it be that the audience chooses to believe the bullshit? The answer he gave, which is essentially "bullshit is more believable" doesn't ring true to me.

What does ring true is that key quote of yours, so the question is how does he establish credibility. He didn't say, but if you want a plausible answer try reading this: https://theconversation.com/d-218742

Re:The Dark Arts – LessWrong by zh3 on Friday December 29, 2023 @03:21PM (#38809751)
Worth noting that this sort of thing is actually taught at the kind of universities that produce politicians. What matters is winning the argument (irrespective of merit) for whichever side will give the best reward.

For example, from [0]:-

"Consider the rules of debate: two sides are randomly assigned to argue for and against a topic – say, that we should abolish student debt. Each speaker has equal time to speak before an impartial adjudicator, who awards the more persuasive team."

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/sep/03/the-art...