Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by CodeGroyper on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:10PM
(#38756402)
It would be silly to request material things as proof for immaterial things. Similar to math or ethics, it doesn't make sense to ask for material evidence that the square root of 2 is irrational or that torturing babies is evil.
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by woodruffw on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:19PM
(#38756479)
The person you're responding to isn't asking for a material proof.
They're pointing out that ontological arguments are typically seen as an "argument of last resort" in a philosophical setting, and are making an (abductive) argument that the use of an ontological argument indicates a weaker position than the importance of the proof (the existence of a god) would otherwise suggest.
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by AndrewKemendo on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:52PM
(#38756737)
In which case you have no claims
The only claims possible are material
Please demonstrate to me a non-materialist claim that has no impact on the materialist world, and still complies with a conception of an omnipresent God
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by kelseyfrog on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:39PM
(#38756620)
I can conceive of a greater God which does have a material existence, so I think it's valid to request material proof.
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by gosub100 on Sunday December 24, 2023 @05:02PM
(#38757362)
the claim (sqrt(2) being irrational) needing material evidence can be reduced even further to the number two needing material evidence. I'm not posing this either for/against your argument, just saying at some point you can doubt the existence of 2 itself. (handing me 2 items doesn't count, what is ... two?)
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by kej on Sunday December 24, 2023 @02:59PM
(#38756297)
That's an interesting example to pick since there was a brief period when educated people doubted the existence of the platypus, too.
Re:Anselm's Ontological Argument: A Guide for the Perplexed
by gizajob on Sunday December 24, 2023 @09:59PM
(#38759261)
The truth of these arguments also seemingly removes any degree of faith from Christianity, because it's been proven that God now exists. Have always been puzzled why they want to prove this given the circumstances of needing faith.
If there were any better arguments, we'd be using them instead.
Nobody needed an ontological argument for platypuses, because we had actual material evidence.