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Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by rayiner on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:30PM (#38751135)
Peacefully: https://www.wsj.com/articles/many-israelis-are-refugees-from...

Name one Arab-majority country where Jews live openly as equal citizens. The suggestion that “freeing Palestine from the river to the sea” would just mean a secular multi-ethnic state where Jews life peacefully among an Arab majority is willful blindness.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by skissane on Sunday December 24, 2023 @12:02AM (#38751280)
> Name one Arab-majority country where Jews live openly as equal citizens. The suggestion that “freeing Palestine from the river to the sea” would just mean a secular multi-ethnic state where Jews life peacefully among an Arab majority is willful blindness.

The logic of your argument implies that binationalism - a single state, belonging equally to both the Jewish and Palestinian nations - is an inherently genocidal position, and hence that proponents of binationalism are guilty of genocidal incitement.

However, there are Jewish Israeli intellectuals who promote binationalism - for example, the journalist Gideon Levy, and the academic Amnon Raz-Krakotzkin. By the logic of your argument, these Jewish intellectuals are guilty of inciting the genocide of their own people - which I think is a rather preposterous claim. Their critics argue that their plans, if ever actually implemented, would inevitably result in genocide in practice - they insist those critics are wrong. But, I don't think it really matters who is right. They don't intend genocide as a consequence of their proposals, so their proposals are not genocidal, whoever is right about what they'd lead to if put into practice. And nobody can really know the answer to that question, unless some day we actually try it.

But, if a binational one-state solution is not inherently genocidal - what makes a mononational one-state solution fundamentally different? In both cases, the claim of genocide is founded on what critics claim will be the practical results of the policy, not what the policy's proponents claim to expect as the outcome.

Some particular versions of a mononational one-state solution are genocidal, as are some proposed strategies to achieve one. But I'm not convinced the idea in itself (either in its Israeli or Palestinian version) necessarily is.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by graphe on Sunday December 24, 2023 @12:05AM (#38751291)
Jews aren't treated worst than others in Muslim countries by these standards. They don't treat Hindus and Shintoism better.
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by cuteboy19 on Sunday December 24, 2023 @03:10AM (#38752034)
That's not true, it's much worse being jews. Christians are the most tolerated, followed by everyone else and then at last it's jews
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by graphe on Sunday December 24, 2023 @08:35AM (#38753355)
Proof?
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by kortilla on Sunday December 24, 2023 @11:18AM (#38754448)
The Holocaust
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by verbify on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:20PM (#38751081)
> the jews lived peacefully in Palestine for centuries alongside christians and muslims before colonization

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Hebron_attacks

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ottoman...

There were periods of peace, but they were also second class citizens and occasionally the victims of massacres.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by BrookeRivers on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:50PM (#38751232)
So because there were violent historic events (half of which were perpetuated colonizers/invading forces) in a region destabilized by colonization/imperialism, that means Israel has the right to genocide the Palestinians living there?
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by verbify on Sunday December 24, 2023 @11:41AM (#38754630)
Of course not. I don't know how you got that I 'support genocide' from my post.

My point was merely not to romanticise the past.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by coryrc on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:19PM (#38751077)
"peacefully"

House to house, Arab mobs went, bursting into every room looking for hiding Jews. Religious books and scrolls were burned or torn to shreds. The defenseless Jews were variously beheaded, castrated, their breasts and fingers sliced off, and in some cases their eyes plucked from their sockets. Infant or adult, man or woman—it mattered not.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/134601

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by slim on Sunday December 24, 2023 @09:45AM (#38753747)
This is after colonization
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by filoleg on Sunday December 24, 2023 @01:05PM (#38755262)
Are you sure? Here is a direct quote:

> Islam had been at war with the Jewish people since its defining inception in 627 when Mohammad exterminated the Jews of Mecca and launched the Islamic conquest that swept north and subsumed Syria-Palestina. For centuries, Jews and Christians in Arab lands were allowed to exist as dhimmis, second-class citizens with limited religious rights. These restrictions were enforced by the Turks who, until World War I, ruled the geographically undetermined region known as Palestine, which included Jerusalem.

Seems quite pre-“colonialization”, assuming we count the establishment of the current state Israel in the 20th century as the startng point for that.

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by mvuijlst on Sunday December 24, 2023 @02:15PM (#38755860)
If you feel you need to go back that far it's perhaps a good idea to compare the way Jews and Christians were treated in Muslim countries with the way Jews were treated in Europe.
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by selimthegrim on Tuesday December 26, 2023 @07:38PM (#38777687)
Edwin Black is usually quite good so I’m disappointed in him here for focusing on the Banu Qurayza and ignoring the Banu Qaynuqa (and furthermore conflating Mecca with Medina)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qaynuqa

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by wokwokwok on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:07PM (#38751017)
Maybe instead of shouting at each other, and deliberately string up everyone, people should all calm down?

I know it hard to feel calm when things like are happening, and everyone wants to blame someone else, but there’s a whole lot of shared responsibility in what’s happening right now.

I care about what’s happening to folk in Palestine a lot, but I also care about the Jews in Israel and what happens to them.

Those are not mutually exclusive things…

Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by ImJamal on Saturday December 23, 2023 @11:16PM (#38751058)
Perhaps you should think about Jews who are in Israel who are not involved with ethnic cleansing? Do you think the Palestinians will make a distinction or would even have a way of knowing who was in support of such policies?
Re:Meta censors pro-Palestinian views on a global scale, rep... by mensetmanusman on Sunday December 24, 2023 @07:56AM (#38753173)
Where are there thriving jewish communities in the middle east now?