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Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by 127361 on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @06:55PM (#38635963)
If we're not hiring based on merit then we're destroying the country's global competitiveness against China.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by sureglymop on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @07:12PM (#38636110)
Hiring is not based on merit anyway. Plenty of talented and skillful workers who may lack in the social and communication skills department, don't have a maxed out and blinged up LinkedIn profile with a bazillion connections or have a resume that was automatically filtered into the rejection stream.

I agree with you otherwise, just wanted to point it out though.

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by ImJamal on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @07:51PM (#38636394)
Merriam Webster defines merit as "a praiseworthy quality".

Programming skills would qualify as merit but so would "social and communication skills". Hiring based on any of those skills would still be hiring on merit. Having an immutable characteristic like a specific gender or race is not a praiseworthy quality.

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by mr_toad on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @09:41PM (#38637156)
Being able to sell yourself during a job interview is not necessarily a good indicator of your ability to communicate effectively at work. Instead it selects for people are shameless self-promoters.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by ImJamal on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @11:31PM (#38637803)
I never suggested that it was. I'm just saying it is a skill to being able to promote yourself. Hiring based on a skill (even if it is only semi-related to the job) is hiring based on merit.

Also, if you can sell yourself you are likely to be able to sell ideas which is a good skill for developers to have.

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by geraldwhen on Thursday December 14, 2023 @06:20AM (#38640164)
Depending on the work, it may be more valuable than coding ability even. You need people with the right ideas that can win arguments. Without that you can only build garbage.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by 127361 on Thursday December 14, 2023 @09:44AM (#38641847)
So we need to address that one as well, so we can employ those who are brilliant technically but might not be so good at socializing. We urgently need something to counter the rise of China, so we are going to have to adapt as a society in order to compete globally.

In fact, hiring such people would be a step towards real diversity in the workplace, if we can find a way to fit them in somehow.

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by abracadaniel on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @09:03PM (#38636916)
A diverse workforce, and thus diversity of perspectives, thoughts, and opinions, is a major competitive advantage against a monoculture that doesn’t value diverse thinking.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by gruez on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @09:18PM (#38637012)
Why not hire specifically for "diversity of perspectives, thoughts, and opinions" then? Why bring race into it?
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by skitout on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @10:28PM (#38637427)
that is one proxy
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by ImJamal on Thursday December 14, 2023 @10:22AM (#38642314)
Are you saying all blacks think the same way?
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by mynameisnoone on Thursday December 14, 2023 @03:20AM (#38639044)
Most big companies want compliant followers who don't make themselves, their bosses, or the company look bad. The problem is the fads of business theater: open offices, DEI, butt-in-seat mentality, multiple layers of top-down militant managers, and multiple rounds of layoffs and uncertainty are the worst.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by anon373839 on Thursday December 14, 2023 @06:14AM (#38640125)
Would be a beautiful thing. But these initiatives don’t do that: instead, they select for a political and socioeconomic monoculture, with diversity in physical appearance only.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by skitout on Wednesday December 13, 2023 @11:06PM (#38637644)
Do you agree the important negative (often unconscious, based on cognitive bias) discrimination against minorities is a problem for the country competitiveness ? (negatively discriminated despite "merit")

Do you agree that reducing racial gap and gender gap in USA would be better for the country and its competitiveness ?

I am not a fan of quota, especially taken in isolation... But the underlying issued are huge, for a moral (not everybody have the same moral) but also economic standpoint

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by markisus on Thursday December 14, 2023 @12:47AM (#38638230)
Racism is a societal disease. But it doesn’t follow that racial quotas is the cure. That is the Politician’s Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by syockit on Friday December 15, 2023 @09:33AM (#38654558)
Yes on the first question, no on the second question.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by gopher_space on Thursday December 14, 2023 @02:37AM (#38638792)
Everybody thinks they merit a position but your resumes all look the same. If you’re being switched out for some rando your work doesn’t matter.
Re:IBM Diversity Efforts Targeted by Stephen Miller's Legal ... by 127361 on Thursday December 14, 2023 @09:39AM (#38641785)
Also it would be in Russia and China's interest to promote these diversity agendas, in order to destabilize and weaken the West. I remember someone say these DEI agendas are a part of a "long march through the institutions" - something right out of China's playbook? If there's a real possibility of state actors promoting such agenads, then this is a serious national security issue.