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Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by vthallam on Thursday December 07, 2023 @04:23PM (#38562000)
> >> and comp was reasonable

there's no way you guys would get the same comp though? like not even close. MSFT irrespective of how much it wants you is not going to honor the 10X increase in valuation from the upcoming $90 billion valuation.

Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by blagie on Thursday December 07, 2023 @04:45PM (#38562231)
I think if things went that far, OpenAIs valuation would very quickly pop to zero.

Real MSFT stock beats a theoretical could-have-been with a 10x upside.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by gretch on Thursday December 07, 2023 @06:48PM (#38563434)
> Real MSFT stock beats a theoretical could-have-been with a 10x upside.

As someone who has done startups, I highly agree with this statement.

But for a lot of people doing start ups for the first time (including my younger self) they don't understand the headache of private market equity, and thus do not apply the correct discount.

As they say, a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by zamalek on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:21PM (#38562643)
> there's no way you guys would get the same comp though?

Nadella was directly involved and he's way smarter than that. Comping one the best ML teams in the world correctly is child's play compared to undoing Balmer's open source mess.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by capableweb on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:24PM (#38562680)
LinkedIn data says ~44% of the OpenAI team is "Engineering", the rest is operations, human resources and sales.

So most likely, if most of the employees moved over to Microsoft, they wouldn't get the same comp, at most 44% of the company would.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by zamalek on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:50PM (#38562884)
> 44% of the OpenAI team is "Engineering"

Yes, the "you guys" average HN demographic per the gp comment.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by HWR_14 on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:54PM (#38562927)
Why wouldn't MSFT honor the increased comp? They are still investing money in OpenAI at that multiple.

They would have to create some kind of crazy structure to avoid wrecking their levels. But of course it could be done.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by anupsurendran on Thursday December 07, 2023 @04:28PM (#38562057)
100% vthallam. The upside for OpenAI is much higher.
Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by smileysteve on Thursday December 07, 2023 @04:59PM (#38562407)
.... Unless Sam Altman, major research leaders and 50%+ of the employees had transferred to Microsoft
Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by ponector on Thursday December 07, 2023 @04:54PM (#38562350)
Don't forget that with new rounds and new valuation there is also a dilution of shares.

If the valuation goes up x10 after next round average developer probably will have the same money locked in rsu/options.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by aetherson on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:23PM (#38562661)
Uh, what? Are you claiming that if a company experiences a 10x (!) increase in valuation, that the dilution fully destroys that upside and the average developer experiences no increase in their comp? That is not even vaguely close to true in my experience.
Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by filoleg on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:57PM (#38562961)
> Are you claiming that if a company experiences a 10x (!) increase in valuation, that the dilution fully destroys that upside and the average developer experiences no increase in their comp?

Not the person you are replying to, but it depends on how diluted it gets. If they print 9x of currently outstanding shares as the value goes 10x, it would result in those original shares being worth exactly the same as before the 10x jump.

But I agree with you overall, in terms of the actual reality. I don’t think any company with half a brain would do that.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by ponector on Thursday December 07, 2023 @06:36PM (#38563301)
I'm sure Sam's cut will go up x10. But there are many ways to screw options of the regular employees.

I'm not talking about key people, about first 50 employees, etc. Regular people.

Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by aetherson on Saturday December 09, 2023 @11:05AM (#38583005)
I have been the "regular people" at many companies that have increased in valuation. Dilution has never erased the gains of even much-more-modest increases in valuation. This sounds like paranoid fantasy to me.
Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by scarface_74 on Thursday December 07, 2023 @06:19PM (#38563149)
How much do you really think that valuation would stand once OpenAI doesn’t get the massive subsidies from MS on compute? OpenAI couldn’t even be an ongoing concern.
Re:OpenAI employees did not want to go work for Microsoft by IshKebab on Thursday December 07, 2023 @05:03PM (#38562445)
> Even if they do, you will miss on the upside. MSFT stock is not going to 10X but OpenAI's might.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that due to the existence of leverage. You can make MSFT have the potential to 10x (or ÷10) if you want.