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Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by matthewdgreen on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:16AM (#38518268)
It’s in China. Lately it feels like the real question is not “can we deploy these technologies scalably” but rather: “can the West possibly catch up with China.” It’s thrilling that things are moving so fast in China, but simultaneously really worrying that we in the US and Europe are so far behind on the deployment of renewables and battery tech. It also feels like our financialized system deploys capital on a ridiculously short time horizon, while China has correctly realized that it can make uncontested long-term bets in these critical areas and destroy the competition.
Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by corethree on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:23PM (#38520110)
The reason why China is able to move so fast is ironically the reason why there's so much division between the West and the east.

China is centrally controlled. There's no debate about climate change in this context. In the US everything is a debate. Every single thing. So we spend more time debating then getting things done.

Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by s1artibartfast on Monday December 04, 2023 @02:40PM (#38522071)
There is plenty of debate and compromise about climate change in China, it just happens behind closed doors. This includes basically all the same questions in the US: Is it real, how bad will it be, what is the acceptable cost for mitigation, how much mitigation is worth it. Stance and strategy on all of these things can and do change in China.

Furthermore, this is a public discussion about climate change in China. The Chinese public ranks climate change as higher priority than in the US. There are several reasons for this, not all of which are top down propaganda. For example, the Chinese population has more recent, immediate, and extreme experience with the negative impacts of environmental disruption.

Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by corethree on Monday December 04, 2023 @03:46PM (#38522803)
Right, of course there is always compromise. But this compromise is made by a third party authority with NO business interest: The authoritarian government. This type of compromise is unbiased and that's why it's able to move faster and be more effective. And like you said, public opinion can be shifted via propaganda and manipulation towards more environmentally positive outcomes.

In the US compromise is different. Compromise is active corporate entities with zero interest in the environment trying to further their own self serving goals. It a standstill via debate. You can see why it's less effective. Additionally, because of freedom of the press propaganda, from both sides can influence public opinion which leads to division of opinion.

Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by tomekf on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:33PM (#38520225)
China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year. Same with coal production. They also build many new coal plants (together with atomic ones). China should be first place to address emission.
Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by dragonwriter on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:35PM (#38520250)
> China is producing more CO2 in a week than many more countries in a year.

Well, yeah, China is more than 52 times the population of many other countries, so that's hardly surprising.

Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by corethree on Monday December 04, 2023 @10:11PM (#38526635)
Right. It needs to be measured per capita.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...

From here it's easily seen that An individual in the US is on average one of the worst offenders while an individual from China is doing extremely well.

Re:Most people don't realize how much progress we've made on... by corethree on Monday December 04, 2023 @12:41PM (#38520318)
You're right. We should be glad it's centrally controlled. If business interests in china were able to insert their own democratic opinion into the debate the problem would be much worse.

It begs the question how good is democracy when huge powerful corporate entities with only business interests in mind are able to participate in a democracy? There's no clear answer here.