Sure, I agree with you at a high level. But if the answer is that LLMs get a pass and the rest of us have to deal with DMCA takedown abuse, inaccessible geolocked content, and 7-figure legal penalties for getting caught downloading a $3.99-to-rent movie, then fuck that.

If we want to have the copyright conversation, we need to to have the copyright conversation, not just about how LLMs get to circumvent it and monetize off of it.

There is no need for a “conversation”. The concept has simply become obsolete and these laws will cease to exist as they are unenforceable.

They won’t cease to exist unless something happens to challenge them and render them unenforceable.

“User since December 2, 2023” checks out

Even if copyright laws are not explicitly repealed, the logistics of enforcing them are becoming unsustainable. This is already largely the case today with the pirate bay and libgen still up and running after all these years, but I expect it is only going to get worse. Anyone can run pre-trained models and make them spit out all kinds of copyrighted data. Anyone can train new models given access to enough data and compute. I just don't see a realistic way to force the toothpaste back in the tube.

> Imo the world needs to find a way past the absurd notion of intellectual property.

Do you work for free?

No and I agree that this is a question that needs to be answered in the "post copyright" world.