The facts are always hidden from the public. There is a lot more going on than a simple aggressor invading a country. Simply following the western narrative in this conflict makes you a propaganda victim as well. Just like all people from the other side.

How can you believe this nonsense?

February 23rd, 2022.

The West told the world the russians were about to invade Ukraine.

The russians told the world that they were not about to invade Ukraine.

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February 24th, 2022.

The West reported to the world that the russians have invaded Ukraine.

The russians told the world that they are not currently invading Ukraine.

Which facts were hidden from the public? Who lied? What was true? What happened?

So please present the real facts then. Or are you claiming normal people like you and me shouldn't investigate what's actually happening since "facts are always hidden from the public".

The facts are pretty clear here: NATO didn't invade Ukraine, Ukraine didn't invade Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and full scale invasion in 2022. Are you denying that? So what facts am I missing??? Or is your defence just "nobody knows". Russia constantly invades neighbouring countries. Are you denying that too? "The facts are always hidden", what kind of bullshit is that? It's just that you've run out of factual arguments that you try the old "nobody knows" trick.

So about the fact that I presented about "Ukraine was bombing the Donbas", who's better to explain it that Putin himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WguLRyWPo4

- (2008) "Crimea is not a disputed territory. Russia long ago recognised the borders of today's Ukraine."

- "It was the local self defence forces"

- "Behind the back of the self-defence forces of Crimea of course, stood our servicemen"

- "It's a fact and we never concealed it: our armed forces blockaded the Ukrainian army in Crimea"

- "Do not believe those who scare you about Russia that Crimea will be followed by other regions. We do not want the division of Ukraine. We do not need it"

So in the end even Putin admitted that they were invading Ukraine, and it was not "local self defence forces". But some people still seem to be stuck on the old narrative that Ukraine was bombing itself.

So can you still present any "alternative" facts or is your story only "nobody knows"?

You can't attack another user like this here, no matter how wrong they are or you feel they are. Please make your substantive points thoughtfully and avoid posting in the flamewar style.

I'm going to post the same reply to the users breaking the site guidelines on the opposite side of this fight. We don't want this kind of battle here, and we ban accounts that do it repeatedly.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it.

Ok I'll avoid personal attacks next time.

But to be fair, maybe you should include a topic about spreading Russian propaganda there, because it's a huge problem in EU: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/documents-publications/li...

A discussion about the involvement of NATO is fair game, but "Ukraine bombing the Donbas" is a 100% Russian propaganda lie. I own my own platform, and such a statement would be an instant ban of that account.

I'm all for free speech, but like I showed, Russian propaganda poses a real threat for us here in the EU.

So in my defense, "Russian mouthpiece" was a factual statement ;), but I understand it's also a personal attack.