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Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by schtog on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @03:55PM (#384784)
Good. Let Python take over the dynamic scripting language space completely.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by thomasmallen on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:06PM (#384800)
Er...you don't want that. Competition is a good thing.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by apgwoz on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:13PM (#384815)
Python's competition these days is most likely to be Ruby, not Perl. A fair number of people I know that once programmed in Perl are now Python/Ruby people.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by thomasmallen on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:17PM (#384820)
I agree. Python has a long way to go before it competes with Perl instead of Ruby.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by run4yourlives on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @11:29PM (#385304)
You're right. Why just last night I read some python code and actually understood it!
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by sethg on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:53PM (#384895)
What do you think Python lacks relative to Perl?

I used to do Perl and now work in a Python shop, and the only Perl feature I really miss is closures (as opposed to Python's hobbled-by-design "lambda" construct).

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by thomasmallen on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:56PM (#384900)
What does Python lack, relative to Perl? Popularity. I know very little Perl and very much Python; my statements aren't intended to promote a particular language. The competition I referred to is based on popularity, not merit.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by cabalamat on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:03PM (#384911)
There's not that much difference in popularity these days. Of projects listed by Freshmeat, Perl is used on 3784 and Python on 3286 ( http://freshmeat.net/browse/160/ ).

A few years ago, Perl had twice as many projects as Python; now it's almost even.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by thomasmallen on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @06:07PM (#384994)
Let's be honest, there's much more Perl code in the wild than Python, and CPAN towers over any Python network. The knowledge base is far greater for Perl as well (there are books on the DBI alone).

Of course, I'd rather code Python usually.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by charcoal on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @11:39PM (#385315)
The Python version of the CPAN is called ["PyPI"](http://pypi.python.org/pypi). It was formerly called the "Cheeseshop".

From the PyPI front page: "There are currently 5256 packages here." According to cpan.org, the CPAN is up to "14749 modules" -- dunno how many distributions that makes though.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by chorny on Sunday December 14, 2008 @03:41PM (#397629)
It's 14793 distributions and x3 modules.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by chaostheory on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @09:31PM (#385204)
yeah that's why I've been converting any Perl apps I've been assigned to Python hehe
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by chorny on Sunday December 14, 2008 @03:40PM (#397627)
You need to maintain readability (whitespaces) in Python, but in Perl you can do this automatically with perltidy.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by cabalamat on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:01PM (#384908)
You're right. Guido would have to completely fuck up the design of Python 3 for it to be anywhere near as ugly as Perl!
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by mlLK on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @10:33PM (#385265)
Well put, as long as they are responsible system administrators Perl will live. Python/Ruby would never play well in an admin's toolbox.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by lacker on Thursday December 04, 2008 @11:49AM (#385833)
Even at Google, where the preferred scripting language is Python by far, many system administration tasks are handled with Perl.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by graemep on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @11:29PM (#385305)
Why?
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by charcoal on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @11:43PM (#385318)
Perl has many features familiar to users of sh/bash. For admins who often deal with shell scripts, it's an easy reach to use Perl for all sorts of little things.

That said, I think you can still be responsible and use Python instead. ;) Might take you a few more keystrokes though.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by evilneanderthal on Thursday December 04, 2008 @12:56PM (#385894)
agree with that. perl is tremendous for sysadmin tasks.

we've had 90% complete python tools rewritten from scratch in perl because perl is so superior.

disclaimer: i'm a recovering ex-sysadmin

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by charcoal on Thursday December 04, 2008 @10:35PM (#386562)
Wait. If I'm reading that right, you had utils written in Python that were 90% finished but then rewrote them in Perl and got them working.

What about Python was getting you stuck at 90%?

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by jumper on Thursday December 04, 2008 @07:33AM (#385601)
I would prefer Python's competition come from something based on a better and presumably newer paradigm, rather than an old tired mess of a language... maybe Perl 5 isn't that, but it sure looks like it to an outsider!
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by d0mine on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:05PM (#384798)
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by sh1mmer on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:55PM (#384981)
How many Perl jobs are turning into Cobol-esque jobs. Maintain a legacy systems and keep it chugging along. How many people build new projects in Perl?
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by d0mine on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @07:34PM (#385076)
Agreed. Each metric has it flaws. Two differently biased metrics are better than one.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by icey on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:02PM (#384909)
Removing Java and C from your list makes it much easier to see what's going on: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python%2C+perl%2C+ruby%2C+...
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by patio11 on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @11:11PM (#385289)
Right. Now view the same stats in Relative (which makes the trending more visible):

http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=python,+perl,+ruby,+php...

The numbers say what most people know: that set of four languages contains 1 that is mature and 3 that are growing. One of them is growing fairly rapidly relative to where it was when the data set started out.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by mattmaroon on Thursday December 04, 2008 @12:14PM (#385857)
You wouldn't consider PHP mature?
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by icey on Thursday December 04, 2008 @12:24PM (#385866)
Or Python, for that matter... I mean, it's 17 years old. It can drive a car and almost vote!
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by davidw on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:10PM (#384919)
Yeah, the post is based on TIOBE stats. LangPop.com is way better:-) Well, honestly it's still far from perfect, but there's just no way to get really good, clean data for programming language usage throughout the world.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by dustineichler on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:19PM (#384821)
It's no longer between Python and Perl, it's Ruby now . Perl still has it's place. Personally, i use it everyday, what surprised me more was Delphi. i only know skype company wise that uses it so i dunno.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by chorny on Sunday December 14, 2008 @03:44PM (#397633)
If you look at TIOBE - they use bad query. Look at http://lui.arbingersys.com/ and http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?usage_statisti... for Perl programming and jobs usage statistics.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by michaelneale on Thursday December 04, 2008 @06:11AM (#385553)
Skype uses Delphi?
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by lacker on Thursday December 04, 2008 @11:54AM (#385837)
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by michaelneale on Thursday December 04, 2008 @07:31PM (#386408)
Wow, I had no idea... nice smartarse link BTW.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by kingkongrevenge on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @04:54PM (#384896)
By any purely empirical analysis Ruby practically doesn't exist.
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by petercooper on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @10:07PM (#385239)
By the same metrics, assuming you've defined any, a lot of things wouldn't exist - particularly languages less popular than Ruby now, such as Logo, ActionScript, Lisp, COBOL, Scala or Haskell.

There are tens of thousands of Ruby developers and hundreds (if not thousands) of companies making significant amounts of money, all backed by Ruby.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by davidw on Thursday December 04, 2008 @11:30AM (#385804)
Actually, by this analysis, it isn't that far behind Perl and Python:

http://www.langpop.com/#normalized

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by mnemonicsloth on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @08:22PM (#385125)
Good. Let Python take over the dynamic scripting language space completely.

Who says Python programmers are all jerks?

That they're cold, humorless perfectionists who alienate new and prospective users?

That they have inferiority issues because they're not as popular as they are right?

That they occasionally lapse into self-parody?

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by schtog on Thursday December 04, 2008 @05:32AM (#385529)
Dude chillout I wasn't exactly serious. But I do think that Python deserves the spot as the nr 1 scripting language.

And of course competition is good.

And I don't think the community alienates new users, on the contrary I find it very helpful.

Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by sabat on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @05:37PM (#384958)
I realize this article is a little incendiary but please don't throw logs on the fire. Python isn't for everyone -- only for people who like it when a space has syntactic meaning. ;-)
Re:Perl 5 Is Dying by kragen on Wednesday December 03, 2008 @06:46PM (#385029)
Today I discovered that % 100 = 3; parses in Perl. I wish the space between the % and the 100 had the semantic meaning of telling perl that the % is supposed to be an operator, not a hash sigil. What other languages allow spaces in identifiers? Fortran 77 and Algol 68, I think?