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Can you write short and still be truthful in general?

I frequently use LLM products and have noticed that when a model has to answer truthfully, it tends to produce significantly longer responses, even for concise queries. (Sometimes, adjusting the system prompts and settings can manage this.)

This has led me to conclude that a 'fact' in language usage is not always a clear-cut principle, but rather a complex, evolving consensus that involves multiple perspectives and can be somewhat obscure.

( 10 comments | 4 points | on HN )
Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by bell-cot on Friday November 24, 2023 @08:00AM (#38403531)
Reaction: Try getting a short-but-truthful answers from human experts, to a non-trivial question. Humans really love simplistic worldviews, but reality ~never cooperates.
Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by h2odragon on Friday November 24, 2023 @08:05AM (#38403572)
Perhaps this is an area where the model is divergent from reality?

objective reality, "truth" is not something an LLM can have had any experience of, is it? Why expect it to be accurate here?

Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by beardyw on Friday November 24, 2023 @08:40AM (#38403831)
> objective reality, "truth" is not something an LLM can have

Nor can we. All our truths are subjective in the end. You believe you read something which you believe said xxxx. You believe you saw something etc.

Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by h2odragon on Friday November 24, 2023 @09:22AM (#38404235)
At least we get sense data to misinterpret
Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by jjgreen on Friday November 24, 2023 @07:57AM (#38403513)
Yes.
Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by mikewarot on Friday November 24, 2023 @08:42AM (#38403850)
No

Unless it's a response to a well posed query. The reason is that words have multiple definitions, thus one phrase might convey multiple conflicting, but plausible meanings to it's intended audience.

To get precision (aka Truth) you have to work very hard to resolve all the ambiguities that result from any combination of words. The more sure you want to be that the reader will interpret your meaning correctly, the more words you're going to require.

Personally, I like to utilize an iterative approach (aka conversation), in which error correction is generally accomplished over time. This is also why I like long form podcasts, the host is allowed to explore the meaning of what the guests say, and dig deeper, and correct any misperceptions (if they are a good host).

If I'm composing a static text, again I favor an iterative approach, posting, then editing, editing, editing until 2 hours is reached, and edits are no longer possible.

Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by antwerp1 on Saturday November 25, 2023 @02:18AM (#38411876)
Nice
Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by surprisetalk on Friday November 24, 2023 @10:36AM (#38404985)
I think simple phrases like “I’m omitting some of the facts here, but…” are helpful.

You may be interested in Sam Harris’s book Lying (I’m not a huge Harris fan, but it’s a solid book).

Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by muzani on Friday November 24, 2023 @11:16AM (#38405425)
Writing short and accurately is what separates skilled lawyers from inexperienced ones, and to a lesser extent, programmers and writers too.

It takes more effort to write less though, and often many iterations. You can get LLMs to shorten them with iterations too.

Re:Can you write short and still be truthful in general? by mejutoco on Sunday November 26, 2023 @03:48AM (#38420157)
I think it would be easier to answer if you gave an example.

A fact is not a language thing, but a reality thing. It is the language itself that creates the complications that confuse us.

Answering your question: yes. The easiest example, a yes and no question.

Question: Is this comment on hn? Answer: Yes

Short and truthful. QED