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Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by evantbyrne on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:04PM (#38354744)
The existence of legal process does not preclude the responsibility of the board and employees to address allegations of this seriousness. And it is serious–it is not normal to be accused of rape by a sibling. Addressing the elephant in the room is not the same thing as being guilty by default you are falsely conflating acknowledgement with punishment. The lack of pressure to at least produce a public statement while this lessor drama does speaks volumes to the lack of moral guiding principles at OpenAI.
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by Dalewyn on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:16PM (#38354913)
>And it is serious–it is not normal to be accused of rape by a sibling.

Thanks, I care even less now if that's even possible.

"Woman coming out with sexual assault allegations against man of prominence." is a dime a dozen occurence; most of them just end up wasting everyone's time due to flimsy or even non-existent hard evidence. Engaging in character assassination, aka cancel culture, on the basis of such nonsense plays right into the hands of the accuser.

The court of law exists specifically to deal with these kinds of allegations, acting appropriately and as necessary within the legal process is the extent of the responsibilities and duties owed by the accused. The accused owes the court of public opinion nothing, much less character assassins such as yourself.

Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by evantbyrne on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:23PM (#38355027)
Choosing to look the other way instead of addressing uncomfortable questions is a choice, and the law does not absolve you of your moral obligation to practice due diligence in choice of leaders. Take it easy.
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by loandbehold on Monday November 20, 2023 @04:53PM (#38355438)
What should he do, release a statement "The allegations are not true, my sister is mentally ill"? What would be the point? It will just attract yellow press.
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by evantbyrne on Monday November 20, 2023 @05:46PM (#38356010)
He wouldn't want to attract attention to it regardless of whether he is guilty of innocent. What is a disappointing moral failure though is that employees and especially the board didn't demand such. Who the heck wants to work next to someone where it is an unaddressed question of whether they did such a thing?
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by lolinder on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:21PM (#38359182)
Let's say the employees do the thing you consider to be ethical and demand an accounting, and Altman gets up and says "it's false, it never happened."

What then? Has anything really changed? I would expect him to say the same thing regardless of its truth, so it seems to me we have no additional information: she still says it happened, the rest of the family says she's delusional, and he (obviously) says he's innocent.

Are your hypothetical morally-concerned employees satisfied now? If so, why?

If they're not satisfied, how does this not create an environment where the only thing you have to do to destroy a company is pay a {sibling, cousin, neighbor, ex-lover, etc} to claim something damaging about its CEO?

Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by evantbyrne on Monday November 20, 2023 @11:37PM (#38359312)
You're supposed to do an actual investigation, not just ask one party's opinion and call it a day. C'mon we're talking about his sister making this accusation not some rando gold digger I don't need to justify that some due diligence is in order. Innocent until proven guilty only works when allegations are investigated–otherwise everyone is always "innocent" because you have just chosen not to look.
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by lolinder on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:01AM (#38359504)
Now you're moving the goalposts. Until now you've been demanding that "leaders address salacious allegations brought against them by their own family" and that they "at least produce a public statement". What you're now demanding is the purview of the law, not the board.

If her allegations are true, he should face the consequences, but they should come first through the system that is specifically designed for testing the truth of allegations that are this serious. OpenAI is under no obligation to launch an investigation themselves in response to an indictment-by-Twitter-mob.

Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by evantbyrne on Wednesday November 22, 2023 @11:44AM (#38381575)
Your inability to understand the difference between a criminal trial and the other leadership practicing due diligence regarding claims of misconduct does not mean I'm "moving the goalposts". What I've suggested from the start is normal practice for any employee at a company accused of sexual misconduct–at least at companies that take ethical violations seriously. You think Apple wouldn't investigate something like this? Forget about it. Ostensibly, based on their complete lack of acknowledgement of such serious allegations that on their surface don't have reason to immediately reject as lacking credibility, this is not one of those organizations. Take it easy.
Re:Sam Altman is still trying to return as OpenAI CEO by Dalewyn on Tuesday November 21, 2023 @12:17AM (#38359634)
>You're supposed to do an actual investigation,

Holding trial in a court of law is that "investigation".

>not just ask one party's opinion and call it a day.

Except that's what you've been saying OpenAI employees should do.

>C'mon we're talking about his sister making this accusation not some rando gold digger I don't need to justify that some due diligence is in order.

Presuming guilt until proven innocent is the literal opposite of due dilligence.

It doesn't matter if the accuser is a sibling, a spouse, a (ex-)lover, a friend, a stranger, or a little green man from Mars. Due dilligence is considering the allegations put forth before the court and the evidence provided to either prove or disprove those allegations, with the burden of evidence primarily lying with the accuser.

>Innocent until proven guilty only works when allegations are investigated–otherwise everyone is always "innocent" because you have just chosen not to look.

You are correct that everyone is presumed innocent of any allegations until the case is brought to a trial and judgment is passed in a court of law with no chance for further appeals. If an accuser never files a lawsuit to bring their allegation to trial, the only way we can consider the accused is that he is innocent of any allegations.