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Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by kayfox on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:03AM (#38329974)
The connector lifetimes are tested by some manufacturers. When I was working on USB (electrical) testing at Microsoft we had test jigs for testing connectors to failure and I can vouch for Microsoft's connectors having lifetimes exceeding 25,000 insertions.

We would also test how many miles a mouse would travel before the glides would wear out.

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by userbinator on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:24AM (#38330072)
we had test jigs for testing connectors to failure[...] 25,000 insertions

That's likely to be the exact reason why the reliability specs don't line up with reality: your test jigs are almost certainly going to be inserting the plugs directly with exact precision, whereas in practice people are going to just "jam it in" and apply significant side-loads as well as misalignment and levering forces.

It's not hard to design a connector that'll last 25k precisely aligned insertions by a test jig but will consistently fail after a few cycles of being mated by typical "hamfisted" users.

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by serf on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:40AM (#38330162)
>That's likely to be the exact reason why the reliability specs don't line up with reality: your test jigs are almost certainly going to be inserting the plugs directly with exact precision, whereas in practice people are going to just "jam it in" and apply significant side-loads as well as misalignment and levering forces.

as someone who was involved with endurance/reliability testing of other physical products, I think you'd be surprised.

Randomized jitter and movement patterns are often replicated and considered.

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by hulitu on Sunday November 19, 2023 @06:15AM (#38331563)
I agree with the parent's comment. I also worked with automated test setups and did human tests. Nothing compares to a human tester. We tested small remote controlls and it was amazing to see that a human hand can inflict more damage to the product that an automated test setup. (the remote was given to different persons just to push the buttons until we reached the desired number of button presses).
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by roywashere on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:47AM (#38330201)
I guess most damage actually does not happen during insertion itself but when someone trips over the cable while the plug is in the socket. Simply because of its bigger size that force is then applied to a bigger grip surface and thus lower per square millimeters on USB-A while the forces will be much bigger with C
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by matsemann on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:20AM (#38330414)
> your test jigs are almost certainly

Why assume that? Why not be humble and just ask the person with first hand knowledge instead of basically attacking their setup based on guessing?

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by userbinator on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:56AM (#38330639)
Because you can search for what connector testing machines look like, and they all look like they'll just destroy the connector if it isn't aligned correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdIdEbr9wQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GkDnQlesUM

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by hulitu on Sunday November 19, 2023 @06:18AM (#38331579)
This is true. A test system will only apply force from one or more predefined directions. A user, on the other side will not take care that he inserts the connector at 45 degrees +/- 3 degrees.
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by jiggawatts on Sunday November 19, 2023 @03:31AM (#38330488)
This is like Samsung testing their foldable phone... in a clean room.
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by Jiro on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:21AM (#38330052)
The fragility comes from how easy it is to damage them by handling them incorrectly. The fact that you can insert them properly 25000 times without damage doesn't change this.
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by holoduke on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:47AM (#38330198)
How can a large usb A port be weaker than a tiny usb c port? If you attach a keyboard and throw it out of the window the usb A port will remain ok whereas the usb c port instantly gets damaged.
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by pbhjpbhj on Sunday November 19, 2023 @05:57AM (#38331448)
Of course you want the port to be weaker than the board it is attached to, so that the port breaks rather than the board.
Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by lxgr on Sunday November 19, 2023 @01:58PM (#38336391)
> How can a large usb A port be weaker than a tiny usb c port?

Because for USB-A, the part that wears down is in the port, while for USB-C it's in the plug.

> If you attach a keyboard and throw it out of the window the usb A port will remain ok whereas the usb c port instantly gets damaged.

Have you tried that yourself, a statistically significant number of times?

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by JohnFen on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:27AM (#38348727)
> Because for USB-A, the part that wears down is in the port, while for USB-C it's in the plug.

I've had a number of USB-C ports break, I've never has a USB-A port break.

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by Yizahi on Sunday November 19, 2023 @02:34PM (#38336856)
My phone is 4 years old and it's type-c os completely destroyed for the last year, it barely connects (and cables are good, verified on the newer hosts). Even we assume I've connected it 2 times per each day every day, ot would mean about 2000-3000 insertions tops. This is an order of magnitude worse than that fantasy 25k number. Another phone with 1000-2000 insertions over life time is also showing port degradation.

And I charge my phones in 99% of cases at home, stationary and undisturbed.

Re:Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021) by JohnFen on Monday November 20, 2023 @09:25AM (#38348677)
Then the tests must be faulty. At least, they don't reflect the real-world experience of me and my friends. USB-C has a much higher failure rate for us.