Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by aidaman on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:31PM (#38314733)

GPT 4 is not remotely unconvincing. It is clearly more intelligent than the average human, and is able to reason in the exact same way as humans. If you provide the steps to reason through any concecpt, it is able to understand at human capability.

GPT 4 is clearly AGI. All of the GPTs have shown general intelligence, but GPT 4 is human-level intelligence.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by SkyPuncher on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:36PM (#38314777)

The only thing GPT 4 is missing is the ability to recognize it needs to ask more questions before it jumps into a problem.

When you compare it to an entry level data entry role, it's absolutely AGI. You loosely tell it what it needs to do, step-by-step, and it does it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by dekhn on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:48PM (#38315374)

This sort of property ("loosely tell it what it needs to do, step-by-step, and it does it.") is definitely very exciting and remarkable, but I don't think it necessarily constitutes AGI. I would say instead it's more an emergent property of language models trained on extremely large corpora that contain many examples that, in embedding space, aren't that far from what you're asking it to do.

I don't think LLMs have really demonstrated anything interesting around generalized intelligence, which although a fairly abstract concept, can be thought of as being able to solve truly novel problems outside their training corpora. I suspect there still needs to be a fair amount of work improving both the model design itself, the training data, and even the mental model of ML researchers, before we have systems that can truly reason in a way that demonstrates their generalized intelligence.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by cscurmudgeon on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:42PM (#38314816)

Sorry. Robust research says no. Remember, people thought Eliza was AGI too.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2308.03762

If it was really AGI, there won't even be ambiguity and room for comments like mine.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by CamperBob2 on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:21PM (#38315119)

As if most humans would do any better on those exercises.

This thing is two years old. Be patient.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by cscurmudgeon on Saturday November 18, 2023 @01:02AM (#38315998)

This comparison again lol.

> As if most humans would do any better on those exercises.

Thats not the point. If you claim you have a machine that can fly, you can't get around a proof of that by saying "mOsT hUmAns cAnt fly" so therefore this machine not flying is irrelevant.

This thing either objectively reasons or not. It is irrelevant how well humans do on those tests.

> This thing is two years old. Be patient.

Nobody is cutting off the future. We are debating the current technology. AI has been around for 70 years. Just open any history book on AI.

At various points from 1950, the gullible mass claimed AGI.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by CamperBob2 on Saturday November 18, 2023 @03:20AM (#38316881)

At various points from 1950, the gullible mass claimed AGI.

Who's claiming it now? All I see is a paper slagging GPT4 for struggling in tests that no one ever claimed it could pass.

In any case, if it were possible to bet $1000 that 90%+ of those tests will be passed within 10 years, I'd be up for that.

(I guess I should read the paper more carefully first, though, to make sure he's not feeding it unsolved Hilbert problems or some other crap that smart humans wouldn't be able to deal with. My experience with these sweeping pronouncements is that they're all about moving the goalposts as far as necessary to prove that nothing interesting is happening.)

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by cscurmudgeon on Saturday November 18, 2023 @12:44PM (#38322162)

The guy I replied to is claiming AGI:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38314733

"GPT 4 is clearly AGI. All of the GPTs have shown general intelligence, but GPT 4 is human-level intelligence. "

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by CamperBob2 on Saturday November 18, 2023 @01:14PM (#38322555)

Fair enough, that seems premature. It's clearly capable of approaching AGI, though. What's needed now is refinement rather than revolution.

Being able to emit code to solve problems it couldn't otherwise handle is a huge deal, maybe an adequate definition of intelligence in itself. Parrots don't write Python.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by smoldesu on Saturday November 18, 2023 @03:05AM (#38316783)

Transformer-based LLMs are almost a half-decade old at this point, and GPT-4 is the least-efficient model of it's kind ever produced (that I am aware of).

OpenAI's performance is not and has never been proportional to the size of their models. Their big advantage is scale, which lets them ship unrealistically large models by leveraging subsidized cloud costs. They win by playing a more destructive and wasteful game, and their competitors can beat them by shipping a cheaper competitive alternative.

What exactly are we holding out for, at this point? A miracle?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by staticman2 on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:49PM (#38314871)

Fascinating. What do you make of the fact GPT 4 says you have no clue what you are talking about?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by postalrat on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:58PM (#38314946)

How does knowing you are arguing against a GPT-4 bot?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by haolez on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:51PM (#38314890)

I kind of agree, but at the same time we can't be sure of what's going on behind the scenes. It seems that GPT-4 is a combination of several huge models with some logic to route the requests to the most apt models. Maybe an AGI would make more sense as a single, more cohese structure?

Also, the fact that it can't incorporate knowledge at the same time as it interacts with us kind of limits the idea of an AGI.

But regardless, it's absurdly impressive what it can do today.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by lossolo on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:00PM (#38314962)

Well, if it's so smart then maybe it will learn to count finally someday.

https://chat.openai.com/share/986f55d2-8a46-4b16-974f-840cb0...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by morsecodist on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:01PM (#38314970)

These models can't even form new memories beyond the length of their context windows. It's impressive but it is clearly not AGI.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by MVissers on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:36PM (#38315255)

Neither can you without your short-term memory system. Or your long-term memory system in your hippocampus.

People that have lost those abilities still have human level of intelligence.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ilya Sutskever "at the center" of Altman firing by morsecodist on Saturday November 18, 2023 @12:07AM (#38315539)

Sure, people with aphasia lose the ability to form speech at all but if ChatGPT responded unintelligibly every time you wouldn't characterize it as intelligent.

[ Parent | on HN ]