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Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by garbanz0 on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:23AM (#38303980)
I am getting tired of takes like this. LLMs are parrots, but they parrot human language which seems to encode our reasoning abilities into its structure. So if you can mimic language well enough, you start to mimic reasoning abilities.

I feel like we should have all moved on from the fact that LLMs don't have a very precise memory? This is (not entirely, but mostly) fixed by including the information you want to query in the prompt itself, like Bing does. ChatGPT is much better at summarization than precise fact recall.

And most of the time, it doesn't matter. When I'm using ChatGPT to learn or troubleshoot something, it's a jumping off point, not the end of the story. As long as everyone understands that, there's no problem. I have yet to see anyone who treats its output as 100% fact, and no AI company claims it either.

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by latexr on Friday November 17, 2023 @10:12AM (#38304649)
> As long as everyone understands that, there's no problem.

But everyone doesn’t understand that, so there is a problem.

> I have yet to see anyone who treats its output as 100% fact

Yet they exist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/08/nyregion/lawyer-chatgpt-s...

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by garbanz0 on Friday November 17, 2023 @07:38PM (#38313120)
Everyone as in every human being on earth, or everyone as in most reasonable people? I'm not convinced at all. ChatGPT tells you it can lie before you can even ask it anything.
Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by latexr on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:14PM (#38314130)
> as in every human being on earth

Not every human being on Earth knows what ChatGPT is, so that’s a non-starter.

> or everyone as in most reasonable people

That qualifier is doing some heavy lifting. It’s so vague it can be used to excuse anything¹. Not only reasonable people (however we’re going to define that) have access to the tool.

> ChatGPT tells you it can lie before you can even ask it anything.

And what you learn fast by doing user support of any tech tool is that most users don’t read instructions even if it’s shoved in their faces. I personally know people that think ChatGPT is the source of truth, despite that disclaimer.

¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by fudged71 on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:22AM (#38305657)
Right. People keep treating ChatGPT like Google Search, expecting to OUTPUT facts. In reality it’s actually better as a Calculator For Words.

In the same way that with a calculator, if you put bullshit in you will get bullshit out. In many cases you need to INPUT facts. This is automated with things like RAG.

I think this is why ChatGPT is extending deeply into RAG, because it matches more closely how users are expecting the tool to work.

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by garbanz0 on Friday November 17, 2023 @09:02PM (#38314014)
I think some people approach this looking for ways the reality of ChatGPT is inconsistent with the hype. But if you just look at it plainly as-is and compare it to where we were 5 years ago, it's pretty amazing, lies and hallucinations and all.
Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by macleginn on Friday November 17, 2023 @12:02PM (#38306334)
> So if you can mimic language well enough, you start to mimic reasoning abilities.

Mimicking reasoning abilities is not the same thing as actually having/developing them.

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by garbanz0 on Friday November 17, 2023 @08:59PM (#38313989)
It's a whole lot better than nothing.
Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by flyval on Friday November 17, 2023 @11:08PM (#38315025)
Huh? Can you explain the difference?

That’s like saying “Oh, you didn’t get the right answer to that math question, you just mimicked giving me the right answer”. Yeah, but if I gave you the right answer, then I gave you the right answer, and I must’ve gotten it somehow.

Re:Oops! We Automated Bullshit by macleginn on Saturday November 18, 2023 @04:41AM (#38317451)
One common mimicking approach in this situation is to remember a (very) large number of math questions, such that the vast majority of new questions will be from this set of very similar to its elements. However, given a slightly non-trivial math question, albeit an easy one, a mimicking system will fail. The system will still be (kinda) practically useful but not trustworthy.