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Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by all2 on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:08PM (#38197051)
I'd be curious to hear about the workflows people have come up with using ChatGPT. I'm still in the realm of "I don't know how to do this" or "I forgot the exact incantation to that" or "is the an X that does Y in framework Z?"
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by Balgair on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:42PM (#38197517)
I can share one set that we have.

Basically, we use AI to do a lot of formatting for our manuals. It's most useful with the backend XML markups, not WYSIWYG editors.

So, we take the inputs from engineers and other stakeholders, essentially in email formats. Then we pass it through prompts that we've been working on for a while. Then it'll output working XML that we can use with a tad bit of clean-up (though that's been decreasing).

It's a lot more complicated than just that, of course, but that's the basics.

Also, it's been really nice to see these chat based AIs helping others code. Some of the manuals team is essentially illiterate when it comes to code. This time last year, they were at best able to use excel. Now, with the AIs, they're writing Python code of moderate complexity to do tasks for themselves and the team. None of it is by any means 'good' coding, it's total hacks. But it's really nice to see them come up to speed and get things done. To see the magic of coding manifest itself in, for example, 50 year old copy editors that never thought they were smart enough. The hand-holding nature of these AIs is just what they needed to make the jump.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by swatcoder on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:05PM (#38197788)
Did you have any scripts or other explicit “rules-based” systems to do this before? Is it a young company?

It sounds like a pretty old and common use case in technical writing and one that many organizations already optimized plenty well: you coach contributors to aim towards a normal format in their email and you maintain some simple tooling to massage common mistakes towards that normal.

What prompted you to use an LLM for this instead of something more traditional? Hype? Unfamiliarity with other techniques? Being a new company and seeing this as a more compelling place to start? Something else?

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by gwd on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:35PM (#38197425)
GPT-4 is quite capable of writing function-length sections of code based only on descriptions. Either in a context where you're not sure what the a good approach is (for myself, when writing Javascript for example), or when you know what needs to be done but it's just somewhat tedious.

Here's a session from me working on a side project yesterday:

https://chat.openai.com/share/a6928c16-1c18-4c08-ae02-82538d...

The most impressive thing I think starts in the middle:

* I paste in some SQL tables and the golang structrues I wanted stuff to go into, and described in words what I wanted; and it generated a multi-level query with several joins, and then some post-processing in golang to put it into the form I'd asked for.

* I say, "if you do X, you can use slices instead of a map", and it rewrites the post-processing to use slices instead of a map

* I say, "Can you rewrite the query in goqu, using these constants?" and it does.

I didn't take a record of it, but a few months ago I was doing some data analysis, and I pasted in a quite complex SQL query I'd written a year earlier (the last time I was doing this analysis), and said "Can you modify it to group all rows less than 1% of the total into a single row labelled 'Other'?" And the resulting query worked out of the box.

It's basically like having a coding minion.

Once there's a better interface for accessing and modifying your local files / buffers, I'm sure it will become even more useful.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by distortionfield on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:48PM (#38197580)
This lines up with my general experience with it. It’s quite proficient at turning a decently detailed description into code if I give it the guard rails. I’ve compared it to having a junior developer at your disposal. They could do a lot of damage if they were given prod access but can come back with some surprisingly good results.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by swatcoder on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:15PM (#38197917)
Are you at all worried about what happens if we have a generation of human junior developers who just delegate to this artificial junior developer?

I do. If too many of our apprentices don’t actually learn how to work the forge, how ready will they be to take over as masters someday themselves?

I can see how ChatGPT was useful to the grandparent today, but got very disturbed by what it might portend for tomorrow. Not because of job loss and automation, like many people worry, but because of spoiled training and practice opportunities.

I liked your take, so I’d be curious to hear what you think.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by ivy137 on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:54PM (#38198425)
chatgpt doesn't just program, is interactive, this will make junior dev. more emphasized in their strength and not, while gaining a lot of experience
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by corobo on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @06:04PM (#38198527)
> what happens if we have a generation of human junior developers who just delegate to this artificial junior developer?

Looking forward to the Y2K levels of highly paid consulting work becoming available now you mention it

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by CamperBob2 on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @06:33PM (#38198799)
We're eventually going to have to give up on the notion that we must understand the inner workings of the things we build. That's arguably starting to happen now. Not 100% sure it's a bad thing, but it's certainly scary.

We've long since reached the point at which no one can be said to be a true polymath ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Man_Who_Knew_Everythi... ). Having lost the ability as individuals to know something about everything, we're now losing the ability to know everything about anything.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by bronsonkhmai on Saturday November 11, 2023 @08:46AM (#38230243)
At some point in the past it strikes me people could have made the exact same argument about any higher level language beyond assembly.

The best answer is really if you ask chatGPT "how has the forging of steel progressed since it was invented?".

To me, you are basically worried for no reason about what happens when the apprentices no longer spends their time heating and hammering iron to remove impurities and increase carbon content. There is a trade off involved here. I am sure the apprentices of old understood at a base level what was really going on in the forge better than a modern apprentice but that hardly is an argument against progress.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by throw555chip on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:00PM (#38197722)
Wow, so, you're not a DBE or DBA but are applying indexes across a database without concern because...a computer model spat out that you should?
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by gwd on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:02PM (#38197753)
This is a local SQLite database into which I had slurped a load of information about git commits to do data analysis. If I'd somehow destroyed the database, I would have just created it again.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by nomel on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @11:32PM (#38201212)
I am also not those. Is there something wrong with too many indexes, assuming memory isn't a huge constraint?
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by financltravsty on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @11:52PM (#38201312)
Biggest one is write overhead: indexes have to be updated every time a record is created or an indexed column is updated. This must be done within the same transaction as the create or update, so you're adding an unnecessary overhead to every single one of those ops. Now, if the data is relatively small or the use-case doesn't warrant it, it doesn't matter.

Lesser issues: additional strain on index rebuilding whenever that happens; messing with execution plans and causing the query planner to be inefficient; primary/secondary memory overhead; or if your DB engine uses locks you can run into a myriad of issues there.

I'm all for SWEs learning about databases, as I'm morally opposed to the proliferation of ORMs and the like, but I don't think ChatGPT is the right way to go about things long-term. It's similar to Googling or using StackOverflow: yes, you will find information that is relevant to what interests you at the moment, but it's soon forgotten and does nothing to help build long-term mental models.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by gwd on Thursday November 09, 2023 @04:53PM (#38211883)
And to be fair, ChatGPT warned me about all of the potential issues with indexes. I did actually evaluate its suggestions and decided they were probably going to be worth the potential cost; and as I've said in a sibling thread, it was just a local SQLite database that consisted of data slurped from another source; so even if I'd somehow screwed the whole thing up, I could just delete it and start over.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by reportgunner on Thursday November 09, 2023 @05:26AM (#38203238)
Can't wait for the "I don't have a driver license but GPT19 just gives me verbal instructions on how to start the car and drive it. It can't read traffic signs but it's fine I haven't killed anyone yet"
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by redblacktree on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:31PM (#38197391)
I like to use it for one-off scripts. For example, I downloaded a bunch of bank statements the other day, and they had a format something like, "Statement-May-1-2023.pdf" and I asked GPT for a powershell script to convert that to "2023-05-01-BankName-Statement.pdf"

It saved a bunch of manual work on a throwaway script. In the past, I might have done something in Python, since I'm more familiar with it than powershell. Or, I'd say, "well, it's only 20 files. I'll just do it manually." The GPT script worked on the first try, and I just threw it away at the end.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by nomel on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @11:37PM (#38201240)
This is what convinced me to pay. I'm completely fine with spending $1/workday if it saves me 10 to 15 minutes per day of bore.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by charlesischuck on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:33PM (#38197408)
Visual design work, coding, messaging, strategy, and law consulting.

Using it for basically every component of my startup.

Image generation and image interpretation means I may never hire a designer.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by tsumnia on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:13PM (#38197132)
I don't have any automated GPT processes for teaching (though I'm going to tinker in December with the new GPTs), but I use for generating examples. It takes some coaxing to avoid other common examples from other institutions, but I eventually settle on something relevant, memorable, and that I can build off from. If its a particular algorithm I am covering, I've then used it to walkthrough the algorithm with some dummy values before confirming the calculations and values are correct. It will still slip up on occasion, but that's why I'm still confirming it did everything correctly.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by tunesmith on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:10PM (#38197073)
I just make sure to ask it really clear questions. I like how it encourages you to think about specification versus implementation. State a clear problem, get clear suggestions. Ask a clear question, get a clear answer. (Usually.)
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by taneq on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @08:05PM (#38199560)
Also ask a vague or underspecified question, get something back that's not quite what you wanted, and iterate on it in natural language. Even at 1 token/sec it's still ridiculously much faster than writing it for yourself, especially if you're using an unfamiliar language or API.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by pmarreck on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:28PM (#38197347)
I'm a coder and it's helped there (although needs constant hand-holding and fine-tuning, yet is still useful)

I wrote a couple commandline tools to do things like autogenerate commit comments or ask it questions from the commandline and return the right bash invocation to do whatever I need done https://github.com/pmarreck/dotfiles/blob/master/bin/functio...

Random thing I did this morning was see if it could come up with an inspiring speech to start healing the rift between israel and its neighbors https://chat.openai.com/share/71498f5f-3672-47cd-ad9a-154c3f...

It's very good at returning unbiased language

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by NicoJuicy on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:49PM (#38197588)
I put in some code that was already done.

Ask it to document the conditions according to the code and taking into consideration the following x, y, z.

Output a raw markdown table with the columns a, b, c.

Translate column a in English between ()

---

Speeds up the "document what you're doing" for management purpose, while I'm actually coding and testing out scenarios.

Tbh. I'm probably one of the few that did the coding while "doing the analysis".

Ps. It's also great for writing unit tests according to arrange, act, assert.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by chrisjc on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @04:58PM (#38197700)
I don't know what you do for a living/hobby, or what you might be interested in using ChatGPT to do for you, but here is how I became familiar with it and integrated it into my workflow. (actually, this is true for regular copilot too)

What I'm about to say is in the context of programming. I have the tendency to get caught up in some trivial functionality, thus losing focus on the overall larger and greater objective.

If I need to create some trivial functionality, I start with unit tests and a stubbed out function (defining the shape of the input). I enumerate sufficient input/output test cases to provide context for what I want the function to do.

Then I ask copilot/ChatGPT to define the function's implementation. It sometimes takes time to tune the dialog or add some edge cases to the the test cases, but more often than not copilot comes through.

Then I'm back to focusing on the original objective. This has been a game changer for me.

(Of course you should be careful about what code is generated and what it's ultimately doing.)

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by piersolenski on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:49PM (#38198358)
I made a NeoVim plugin that helps debug diagnostic messages, providing explanations and solutions for how to fix them, custom tailored to your code.

It's a bit different from other plugins which only act on the text in the buffer in that it also sends the diagnostics from the LSP to ChatGPT too.

https://github.com/piersolenski/wtf.nvim

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by sibit on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @06:26PM (#38198740)
That's a really neat plugin! Couple of questions for you:

1. How many times a [day/month] do you use it?

2. In your experience how often does GPT 'hallucinate' an explanation?

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by piersolenski on Saturday November 11, 2023 @07:09AM (#38229624)
Thanks! I use it every day, especially with Typescript where the diagnostic errors and notoriously hard to read. The instructions it sends off the GPT are quite strict and fine tuned at this point, so the responses tend to be good. The solutions are either bang on the money or at least the explanations point me in the right direction. You can pass additional instructions and configure the model as well to further fine tune it.
Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by WendyTheWillow on Wednesday November 08, 2023 @05:52PM (#38198401)
ChatGPT is a good editor for the papers I write for school. Even for short sentences I don't like, I'll ask it for some options to reword/simplify.

I also use it heavily for formatting adjustments. Instead of hand-formatting a transcript I pull from YouTube, I paste it into Claude and have it reformat the transcript into something more like paragraphs. Many otherwise tedious reformatting tasks can be simplified with an LLM.

I also will get an LLM to develop flashcards for a given set of notes to drill on, which is nice, though I usually have to heavily edit the output to include everything I think I should study.

In class, if I'm falling behind on notetaking, I'll get the LLM to generate the note I'm trying to write down by just asking it a basic question, like: "What is anarchism in a sentence?" That way I can focus on what the teacher is saying while the LLM keeps my notes relevant. I'll skim what it generates and edit to fit what my prof said, but it's nice because I can pay better attention than if I feel I have to keep track of what the prof might test me on. This actually is a note-taking technique I've learned about where you only write down the question and look up the answer later, but I think it's nice I now can do the lookup right there and tailor it to exactly how the prof is phrasing it/what they're focusing on about the topic.

Re:Major Outage Across ChatGPT and API by paradite on Thursday November 09, 2023 @02:21AM (#38202109)
I experimented with using a streamlined workflow to use ChatGPT (GPT-4) for coding tasks.

In the end I settled on a standalone desktop app to "compose" prompt with source code, instructions and formatting options which I can just copy paste into ChatGPT.

The app is available for download if anyone is interested: https://prompt.16x.engineer/